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RamzFanz

Damnit
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  • #41
The evidence? What evidence can you possibly get when there isn't a video camera on the freaking dashboard? Every precinct in Missouri has one except Ferguson, and I sure as crap don't buy the excuse that they were "too poor to get them". What evidence can you get when the ME doesn't have freaking batteries for his camera for taking pictures of Brown's corpse at the scene? It's a horseshit excuse. At best - at the very best - they botched the evidence out of sheer incompetence. At worse, they're corrupt from the top down.

Have you ever wondered why hospitals don't have cameras in psychiatric wards, with the exception being in isolation? It's so that nobody can expose the security guards and techs when they harass and assault people who only came here to get help. That's the same as not having a camera on the dashboard of a police vehicle. It's so that nobody can prove or disprove anything.

Witnesses don't always see the same thing; there are so many variables to take into account that it's almost impossible to see the exact same thing unless it's in broad daylight in a public place - and even then, you need video and DNA evidence.

This is as shady as it gets. I'm not a conspiracy theorist; I just know how these people work.

Also, the medical examiner only gathers evidence for the pathologist so the pathologist can determine the cause of death. He doesn't do the criminal investigation. The cause of death was self-apparent. Him not taking photographs doesn't mean photos weren't taken because photos were taken, the investigators took the pictures, he didn't need to for his purposes.

Sounds to me like your sources are probably biased. You should try better sources that aren't trying to paint a picture for you.
 

Memento

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Also, the medical examiner only gathers evidence for the pathologist so the pathologist can determine the cause of death. He doesn't do the criminal investigation. The cause of death was self-apparent. Him not taking photographs doesn't mean photos weren't taken because photos were taken, the investigators took the pictures, he didn't need to for his purposes.

Sounds to me like your sources are probably biased. You should try better sources that aren't trying to paint a picture for you.

The cause of death was gunshots, yes, but it's proper procedure to take pictures at the crime scene. The ME brought a camera that didn't have batteries. Fact of the matter is, they blew it from the very start.

And I don't need a damned picture painted for me when I know for a fact that there are too many people in authority positions who are crooked and abuse their power. Michael Brown is just one more person who had to pay the ultimate price because of it. Just one more statistic in the hundreds of thousands, if not millions.

That's why I'm so upset about this. The grand jury all but confirmed that the people in power can step on anyone lower than them and not suffer the consequences like everyone else.
 

RamzFanz

Damnit
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  • #43
The cause of death was gunshots, yes, but it's proper procedure to take pictures at the crime scene. The ME brought a camera that didn't have batteries. Fact of the matter is, they blew it from the very start.

And I don't need a damned picture painted for me when I know for a fact that there are too many people in authority positions who are crooked and abuse their power. Michael Brown is just one more person who had to pay the ultimate price because of it. Just one more statistic in the hundreds of thousands, if not millions.

That's why I'm so upset about this. The grand jury all but confirmed that the people in power can step on anyone lower than them and not suffer the consequences like everyone else.

Well, I'll just have to disagree. I pointed out the purpose of a medical examiner and that the investigators did take pictures. He did what he was supposed to do. Taking more pictures would not have resulted in a different outcome or have been of any use to him or the investigation. His batteries were dead. It happens. He didn't go get more because he didn't need the pictures to complete his task and he knew there were already pictures. Hundreds of them.

I'm betting that wherever you're getting your facts, they didn't mention these:

Wilson was retreating from Brown and yelling for him to stop and get down repeatedly. This is confirmed by all of the forensic evidence and many eyewitnesses.

Brown was going toward Wilson. This is confirmed by all of the forensic evidence and many eyewitnesses.

Brown made it to around 8' from Wilson before the fatal shot. This is confirmed by all of the forensic evidence and many eyewitnesses.

Brown did go for Wilsons gun and did punch him repeatedly while he was in his car. This is confirmed by all of the forensic evidence and many eyewitnesses.

Many of the eyewitnesses you've seen on the news changed their stories under oath. Some were obviously making things up originally, embellishing at best, and others added details like Brown was going toward Wilson and Wilson was yelling for Brown to stop.

You should consider all of the facts before condemning a man.
 

snackdaddy

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Bottom line is, we don't know what exactly happened in detail. We have an idea, but its really about what you want to believe at this point. And is guilt or innocence even an issue at this point? Would more hard evidence change what people want to believe? Not likely.

If you want to believe Wilson killed him in cold blood you won't believe his testimony. My guess is, even if they came out with a bombshell like video evidence he was innocent, it wasn't going to stop the protests and subsequently the riots. They feel this has been going on too long and they're sick and tired of no one doing anything about it. Are they right? I have no idea. I just know the violence only divides people even more than before.
 

Boffo97

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Bottom line is, we don't know what exactly happened in detail. We have an idea, but its really about what you want to believe at this point. And is guilt or innocence even an issue at this point? Would more hard evidence change what people want to believe? Not likely.

If you want to believe Wilson killed him in cold blood you won't believe his testimony. My guess is, even if they came out with a bombshell like video evidence he was innocent, it wasn't going to stop the protests and subsequently the riots. They feel this has been going on too long and they're sick and tired of no one doing anything about it. Are they right? I have no idea. I just know the violence only divides people even more than before.
This.

Regardless of who was wrong and who was right in this particular incident, there have unfortunately been multiple incidents where African Americans were persecuted and even killed for no reason other than their skin color. And I can see where it would be tempting to assume ALL incidents between a Caucasian and an African American were more of the same.

If I knew how to solve this issue, I'd go get my Nobel Peace Prize (I do already have the same qualification Obama had for his... not being George W. Bush, but I digress...)

In a lot of ways, the truth of this particular incident is, unfortunately, irrelevant. If people want to believe it is more of the same, I'm not sure anything will change their mind.
 

RamzFanz

Damnit
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9,029
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #46
Bottom line is, we don't know what exactly happened in detail. We have an idea, but its really about what you want to believe at this point. And is guilt or innocence even an issue at this point? Would more hard evidence change what people want to believe? Not likely.

If you want to believe Wilson killed him in cold blood you won't believe his testimony. My guess is, even if they came out with a bombshell like video evidence he was innocent, it wasn't going to stop the protests and subsequently the riots. They feel this has been going on too long and they're sick and tired of no one doing anything about it. Are they right? I have no idea. I just know the violence only divides people even more than before.

While I disagree that we don't know what happened in detail, it's true that the polarized crowds don't care.

It disappoints me when a person gets sacrificed on the altar of fairness. It's like protesters can never pick the right case. The ones that want justice and change lose credibility by arguing against innocent people.
 

Ramhusker

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What a cess pool they have now. They got it looking like Detroit now. Good luck with that asinine strategy. Don't expect the business owners to open back up for your dumb asses!
 

Stranger

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Hugh
What a cess pool they have now. They got it looking like Detroit now. Good luck with that asinine strategy. Don't expect the business owners to open back up for your dumb asses!
Really, is that the sentiment here? I hope not.

My experience is that it's those who are most suppressed in society are the ones with the most open eyes. As I said in the previous post, that kid @3:15 in the video sums-it-up in quite a balanced way. He understands what's going on. There a myriad of forces at work to achieve this kind of social cocktail. Blaming the inner city folks is to be ignorant of everything else that's been going on for decades.

Yes, the entire situation is an unfortunate trajedy. But I'd argue that it's totally unfair to see this in isolation.
 

Thordaddy

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Really, is that the sentiment here? I hope not.

My experience is that it's those who are most suppressed in society are the ones with the most open eyes. As I said in the previous post, that kid @3:15 in the video sums-it-up in quite a balanced way. He understands what's going on. There a myriad of forces at work to achieve this kind of social cocktail. Blaming the inner city folks is to be ignorant of everything else that's been going on for decades.

Yes, the entire situation is an unfortunate trajedy. But I'd argue that it's totally unfair to see this in isolation.

Whereas I might agree that people who are most suppressed as you say have a distinctly different view of why there is mistrust between groups . to say they have their eyes the "most open" is to imply the rest have theirs less open.

I fail to see how what is happening in Ferguson is being perpetrated by people with any consideration of ALL points of view , certainly they are expert in their own point of view which I am sympathetic towards ,but the fact that their violence is SO misdirected it can't possibly leave the impression that people who behave that way aren't logical targets for active policing .
The fact is in the black community I frequented during the 40 years I was in business I observed a propensity for the police to be intimidated so much so that they only made arrests if complaints were filed even if they themselves were witness to things that warranted it .

As the Sheriff in the video alludes the irresponsible groups that "descended" upon Ferguson only profit from the violence and work diligently to propagate falsehoods EVEN after most if not all of the witnesses who claimed Brown had his hands up when he was shot recanted ,even though the physical evidence corroborates the police officers story ,they still use the mantras "hands up don't shoot" and "justice for Micheal" AND I highly suspect that in many of the cities that are seeing protests , they are rent a mobs as per the statements of Niger Innis numerous times .

The kid as you call him doesn't even have the reason Mike Brown lost his life correct , he didn't get shot because he strong arm robbed a store,if that had been the case he would have been shot as soon as the officer stopped, he was killed because he attacked an officer and struggled with him for the gun and put the officer in the position of NOT arresting his own assailant or using deadly force. If he had his eyes "more open" he'd understand that falling behind the idea that he does only ensures that the very neighborhood he is seeing destroyed is LESS likely to have a safe and order;y place to raise children get educated and geduate to a better life.
IF and I think it highly likely that Mike Browns first strong arm of a local business or individual was not the one he was being investigated for, most people in Ferguson were at more risk from Brown than rogue cops the people of Ferguson will be better off when they quit taking an adversarial view of police who are trying to bring order and safety to their community.
I can't know what it means to be black and living in a dysfunctional neighborhood to the extent one who lives there does, but I do know what it takes to live in a place where law and order is a prized element of life and maintaining an adversarial attitude towards police and protecting criminal behavior from the things it takes, burning down my neighborhood is emphatically not what it has taken to ensure that order.

The wholesale criminal behavior being exhibited I would submit to you is not being perpetrated by former victims of Mike Brown and his bullying,it IS being exhibited by people who want to behave that way and are themselves exploiting the young mans death in order to cover their own similarities to him.
Factoid: It has been reported that 6% of black people in Ferguson voted in the last election,and I'd bet all my ROD bucks the rioters are not that 6%
 

Stranger

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The Modern Suppression of African Americans
Posted by African Press International on September 3, 2010
Send in for publishing by F.Jones
http://africanpress.me/2010/09/03/t...ans-under-national-interest-2006-revise-2008/

As a means of ensuring the continuance of its white dominance and control, White America’s methods of institutional racism has been secretly modified into a more contemporary and stealthy design that provides a more socially acceptable means of controlling and suppressing the advancement of its Black population.� This modern method is a social engineering program that I appropriately referred to as �the Black Matrix�. �And although this�method is less blatant than those earlier racist systems used in the past against Black people, its affects are however far more detrimental. In fact, it is the most proficient racist system ever deployed against Black people and yet most are totally oblivious of its existence.

It is surmised that this covert social engineering program [Black Matrix] was implemented in 1968, in the face of widespread violence that ensued after the death of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.� �Dr. King�s brutal assassination amplified Black angry demonstrations and riots within the United States.� Such incidents were reported in more than 100 cities across the nation immediately following the assassination.� This violence resulted in the loss of lives and property that cost the nation and taxpayers millions of dollars and increasingly placed the peace and stability of the nation in dire jeopardy.� America�s racially motivated brutality toward African Americans appeared to have reached its boiling point, creating much unrest and discord.� These factors, combined with the rapidly deteriorating American global image, led U.S. Government agents of White supremacy to quickly reform their techniques of institutionalized racism.

This problem resulted in President Lyndon B Johnson ordering the formation of the Kerner Commission.� Its mission was to investigate and prescribe a cure or recommendations for the problem.� The Commission concluded that blatant White racism was the single aggravating factor for the collective problems. The Kerner report�s findings required that the U.S. Government abandon its open, blatant forms of racist systems used to suppress and control of its Black population as a means of maintaining its White dominance.� This abandonment of outdated tactics necessitated an implementation of an improved method for ensuring the continuance of white dominance and control.

Changing times required that the U.S. government modify its methods. �Today�s method is more covert and sophisticated in its implementation. The United States media�s distorted portrayal of Black America that amplifies the negative to the point that it distorts reality is more than just biased media reports. They function as a media manipulation psychosocial program. It is deployed through a massive media driven– social engineering- – marketing campaign that devalues African Americans. Its features include the ability to both influence the national climate and engender personal psychological feelings among African Americans that ensures the continuance of white dominance.

This psychosocial program adversely manipulates and shapes the minds and collective perceptions of African Americans by subjecting them to seeing only the fraudulent worst in themselves.� Its unrelenting daily assault on the Black psyche�is designed to break down African Americans� sense of racial�unity and allegiance, mold the character of self-hatred, and engender self-doubt, self-loathing, and division among their group that weakens their ranks.� It also conditions Black people to accept white dominance over their lives by convincing them that it is now they that are their own worst enemies.

Furthermore, it also heightens mass insensitivity throughout the nation and world regarding the plight of African Americans therefore facilitating a consensual nationally setting for Black mistreatment. It fosters false justifications for America�s legal system�s mistreatment of African Americans; wherein they are disproportionately incarcerated, given stiffer sentences, and unfairly treated.� The effects of this massive psychosocial program are also manifested in ideas, education, governmental policies, economic stratification, social segregation, housing markets, hiring and promotion practices, psychological issues, and minority access to a variety of social services and opportunity. It also affects attitudes that, when enacted through governmental policies, laws, and other legislation actions, serve to ensure that African Americans will not advance.

This psychosocial program is at the core of the feeling of self hatred that many African Americans now experience as well as the feelings of superiority that many whites possess.

The objective of the United States government has always been to maintain its White dominance over its Black population, and clearly mass psychological manipulation meets this need–because it covertly creates a national climate that allows the government to suppress consensually the advancement of its African American population and to maintain its White dominance.�� Furthermore, history overwhelmingly demonstrates that the White race�s innate proclivity for racism, control, and dominance is much too deeply engrained for them to just merely give up their practices of implementing suppressive methods over its African American population. Clearly, the method of psychological warfare provides the United States Governmental elites with a method for meeting this need but doing so with the added benefit of not appearing racist. It was perfectly suited for the changing times.� Unlike the extremely cruel and public racism used in the past, which Blacks were able to easily identify and thus unify to form counter strategies against, racism through psychological warfare is much harder to detect.� Armed with this method, the U.S. government could maintain dominance and control with less social fallout because racism is not as easily recognized.� This new method exists in the space between overt racism and racial respect.

This more covert and sophisticated method of deploying white racism requires a more in-depth explanation of how it actually works.

————————–

“I for one believe that if you give people a thorough understanding of what confronts them and the basic causes that produce it, they’ll create their own program, and when the people create a program, you get action.” – Malcolm
 

Ramhusker

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The Modern Suppression of African Americans
Posted by African Press International on September 3, 2010
Send in for publishing by F.Jones
http://africanpress.me/2010/09/03/t...ans-under-national-interest-2006-revise-2008/

As a means of ensuring the continuance of its white dominance and control, White America’s methods of institutional racism has been secretly modified into a more contemporary and stealthy design that provides a more socially acceptable means of controlling and suppressing the advancement of its Black population.� This modern method is a social engineering program that I appropriately referred to as �the Black Matrix�. �And although this�method is less blatant than those earlier racist systems used in the past against Black people, its affects are however far more detrimental. In fact, it is the most proficient racist system ever deployed against Black people and yet most are totally oblivious of its existence.

It is surmised that this covert social engineering program [Black Matrix] was implemented in 1968, in the face of widespread violence that ensued after the death of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.� �Dr. King�s brutal assassination amplified Black angry demonstrations and riots within the United States.� Such incidents were reported in more than 100 cities across the nation immediately following the assassination.� This violence resulted in the loss of lives and property that cost the nation and taxpayers millions of dollars and increasingly placed the peace and stability of the nation in dire jeopardy.� America�s racially motivated brutality toward African Americans appeared to have reached its boiling point, creating much unrest and discord.� These factors, combined with the rapidly deteriorating American global image, led U.S. Government agents of White supremacy to quickly reform their techniques of institutionalized racism.

This problem resulted in President Lyndon B Johnson ordering the formation of the Kerner Commission.� Its mission was to investigate and prescribe a cure or recommendations for the problem.� The Commission concluded that blatant White racism was the single aggravating factor for the collective problems. The Kerner report�s findings required that the U.S. Government abandon its open, blatant forms of racist systems used to suppress and control of its Black population as a means of maintaining its White dominance.� This abandonment of outdated tactics necessitated an implementation of an improved method for ensuring the continuance of white dominance and control.

Changing times required that the U.S. government modify its methods. �Today�s method is more covert and sophisticated in its implementation. The United States media�s distorted portrayal of Black America that amplifies the negative to the point that it distorts reality is more than just biased media reports. They function as a media manipulation psychosocial program. It is deployed through a massive media driven– social engineering- – marketing campaign that devalues African Americans. Its features include the ability to both influence the national climate and engender personal psychological feelings among African Americans that ensures the continuance of white dominance.

This psychosocial program adversely manipulates and shapes the minds and collective perceptions of African Americans by subjecting them to seeing only the fraudulent worst in themselves.� Its unrelenting daily assault on the Black psyche�is designed to break down African Americans� sense of racial�unity and allegiance, mold the character of self-hatred, and engender self-doubt, self-loathing, and division among their group that weakens their ranks.� It also conditions Black people to accept white dominance over their lives by convincing them that it is now they that are their own worst enemies.

Furthermore, it also heightens mass insensitivity throughout the nation and world regarding the plight of African Americans therefore facilitating a consensual nationally setting for Black mistreatment. It fosters false justifications for America�s legal system�s mistreatment of African Americans; wherein they are disproportionately incarcerated, given stiffer sentences, and unfairly treated.� The effects of this massive psychosocial program are also manifested in ideas, education, governmental policies, economic stratification, social segregation, housing markets, hiring and promotion practices, psychological issues, and minority access to a variety of social services and opportunity. It also affects attitudes that, when enacted through governmental policies, laws, and other legislation actions, serve to ensure that African Americans will not advance.

This psychosocial program is at the core of the feeling of self hatred that many African Americans now experience as well as the feelings of superiority that many whites possess.

The objective of the United States government has always been to maintain its White dominance over its Black population, and clearly mass psychological manipulation meets this need–because it covertly creates a national climate that allows the government to suppress consensually the advancement of its African American population and to maintain its White dominance.�� Furthermore, history overwhelmingly demonstrates that the White race�s innate proclivity for racism, control, and dominance is much too deeply engrained for them to just merely give up their practices of implementing suppressive methods over its African American population. Clearly, the method of psychological warfare provides the United States Governmental elites with a method for meeting this need but doing so with the added benefit of not appearing racist. It was perfectly suited for the changing times.� Unlike the extremely cruel and public racism used in the past, which Blacks were able to easily identify and thus unify to form counter strategies against, racism through psychological warfare is much harder to detect.� Armed with this method, the U.S. government could maintain dominance and control with less social fallout because racism is not as easily recognized.� This new method exists in the space between overt racism and racial respect.

This more covert and sophisticated method of deploying white racism requires a more in-depth explanation of how it actually works.

————————–

“I for one believe that if you give people a thorough understanding of what confronts them and the basic causes that produce it, they’ll create their own program, and when the people create a program, you get action.” – Malcolm
Whew, that is quite the load of BULLSHIT. Who is ultimately responsible for this feces? President Johnson had some awful bad luck with commissions he formed didn't he?
 

Stranger

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Hugh
And then we have Hollywood spewing out stuff like this....

Anarchyfeatures more in-your-face commentary about class warfare. A vocal and organized minority seeks to upset the status quo and wrest control from the callous elite.



Whew, that is quite the load of bullcrap. Who is ultimately responsible for this feces? President Johnson had some awful bad luck with commissions he formed didn't he?
What's "bullcrap" about it? It certainly ain't bullcrap to the millions of inner city people of color. Or, to many of color living in the 3rd world.
 

Ramhusker

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And then we have Hollywood spewing out stuff like this....

Anarchyfeatures more in-your-face commentary about class warfare. A vocal and organized minority seeks to upset the status quo and wrest control from the callous elite.




What's "bullcrap" about it? It certainly ain't bullcrap to the millions of inner city people of color. Or, to many of color living in the 3rd world.

You actually believe that article? Really? That's what is at play in the world?
 

Ramhusker

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I don't even understand the question. How is this even up for discussion?

http://on.msnbc.com/11WMfHa

Discussion or debate?

So who is orchestrating this master plan? Who has the playbook? I guess the US Government and this administration are following the plan? (Maybe so if you consider they enlisted Al Sharpton for help) Does it have a chapter in there where it tells minorities to use very bad examples of perceived injustices to further their causes? (like the cases of Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown) I assume the concept of personal responsibility has been omitted and replaced with somebody else is always responsible for my condition (the cops, the judge, the teacher, the principal, other races, the man). I got a lot of questions I guess.
 

Stranger

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Hugh
Discussion or debate?

So who is orchestrating this master plan? Who has the playbook? I guess the US Government and this administration are following the plan? (Maybe so if you consider they enlisted Al Sharpton for help) Does it have a chapter in there where it tells minorities to use very bad examples of perceived injustices to further their causes? (like the cases of Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown) I assume the concept of personal responsibility has been omitted and replaced with somebody else is always responsible for my condition (the cops, the judge, the teacher, the principal, other races, the man). I got a lot of questions I guess.
Do you mean to say you can't see the racism inherent in just about all US media?

You have never lived outside the USA, have you?
 

Ramhusker

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Do you mean to say you can't see the racism inherent in just about all US media?

You have never lived outside the USA, have you?

Nope, never lived outside the US but I have been to 5 continents and 15+ countries. I see an extremely progressive tilt to most US media outlets but not quite sure I see a racism towards minorities but maybe an attempt to create racial tension in reporting incidents. The Trayvon Martin case a prime example of that. Could you give a couple of examples of inherent racism in US media?
 

RamzFanz

Damnit
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  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #60
I don't even understand the question. How is this even up for discussion?

http://on.msnbc.com/11WMfHa

Dude, there is no bigger fake and agenda driven reporter than Chris Hayes. He doesn't even point out that the forensics prove he is lying as if we didn't already know that as being probable.

Johnson lied. He stated things that were untrue and also withheld testimony that supported Wilson.