GOT Season6

  • To unlock all of features of Rams On Demand please take a brief moment to register. Registering is not only quick and easy, it also allows you access to additional features such as live chat, private messaging, and a host of other apps exclusive to Rams On Demand.

Elmgrovegnome

Legend
Joined
Jan 23, 2013
Messages
21,605
https://theringer.com/melisandre-indie-pop-album-6354381a1ef5#.sxkr4igfu

Melisandre’s Very Real Indie-Pop Album
Carice van Houten, better known as the Red Woman, has a music career, too
Rob Harvilla
Staff Writer, The Ringer

1*YUo9RJUbH19tho3P58EIEA.gif


Whether you’re a book-devouring Game of Thrones maester or a clueless TV-show-only neophyte with no damn idea who the Blackfish is, you might be aware that Melisandre, a.k.a. the Red Woman, a.k.a. Dutch actress Carice van Houten, is also an indie-pop singer of some (Dutch, mostly) renown.

In light of her character’s recent upgrade from “frequently topless one-note fount of evil” to “frequently topless and apparently 400-year-old fount of compelling moral ambiguity, but at least the whole Jon Snow resurrection thing was dope,” let us now revisit her 2012 album See You on the Ice. (To dispense with this immediately: She is not topless on the cover, though she is, basically,pantsless.)


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eu9NJ0D8LOg

Your exposure here might be limited to bemusedly watching the video for “Emily,” which is a remarkably goofy rom-com sorta deal with a cheerful Phoenix-esque guitar riff and a cool bell-motif thing happening. But that song’s somewhat of a red herring — almost a trap, really, much the same way as, uh [Googles furiously] Walder Frey’s implied invocation of guest right led the Starks to their doom at the Red Wedding.

Most of the rest of See You on the Ice is a weird, arty, Goth-haunted, torch-y exploration of shallow love and deep space and the comfort of eternity. (See You in the Ice would’ve been a cooler title, science-wise.) There is cause for concern when doomy, symphonic opener “Siren or the Sea” cranks up and Carice unveils a dainty, bright, Regina Spektor– or Ingrid Michaelson–indebted vocal style, twee and overenunciated, as though she’s knitting every syllable its own cute little sweater.

But halfway through, an unnerving burst of Nine Inch Nails aggro synths kick over all the furniture in the room, and her voice deepens and darkens, and happily, your sense of normalcy and peace never quite recovers.

Weird album, man. “Something Funny” is an operatic ode to embracing the unfeeling randomness of the universe (”There is no plan, there is no grand design”) as a means of overcoming your damn commitment issues (“What’s in the way of giving into love?”). The lyrics make up for the ukulele. “Recovery Mission” is an alt-country shuffler with bizarrely soothing spoken-word verses:

They found water on Mars
Not much, but, surely substantial
About a pound of frozen tears’ worth
And as such was purely circumstantial


She also duets with ANOHNI (!) on the eerie “Particle of Light” and cosmic-folk lifer Howe Gelb (!!) on “Broken Shells,” both of whom would make excellent GoT characters, and both of whom sound like they’d warged into direwolves for the occasion. (Don’t @ me, maesters, in re: the plausibility of this.) If PJ Harvey had put out this album (with Air producing, maybe, somehow?), your coolest and most insufferable friend would still be talking about it.

If you’re coming into this thing with, uh, the average GoT viewer’s thirst for one-handed prurient thrills, please proceed directly to “You.Me.Bed.Now.,” which does indeed feature Carice breathily invoking the title, over and over and over, during the chorus, amid nervous drums and weepy strings, like a livelier, more priapic version of Drake’s Views.

From there she descends into full-on jazzy supper-club fatalism, the lyrical mundanity of “End of the World” — ”I fed both your cats / And I watered your plants” — undercut by the intergalactic yearning in her voice. As a bald attempt at writing her own “My Funny Valentine,” she could’ve done worse, and you definitely would’ve. Let her live (for hundreds of years, apparently).

Final analysis: This is a better Lana Del Rey record than the last Lana Del Rey record, or at least you’ll nod off slower. The loping melody to “Time” is currently stuck in my head; the string blowout in the middle there is lush and cerebral and, probably, expensive. Maybe she got a Dutch grant of some sort, or maybe she pledges allegiance to, y’know, a higher power. I wish her and Guy Pearce (!!!) the best of luck with their imminent baby (!!!!). And yes, that joke has already been made, along with all the other ones.


More importantly...she has great tits.
 

Elmgrovegnome

Legend
Joined
Jan 23, 2013
Messages
21,605
I have read a lot lately about Aryan being a Warg. That 'shift alt x' fellow does a good piece on her. Her Dire Wolf Nymeria is still alive and leading a pack of a hundred wolves through the Forrest. If a warg dies they can become the animal they warg into. There has also been this theme of her being a lone wolf and paralleled to the Hound. So, does she finish out alone and become Nymeria and fight White Walkers as a wolf?

I do agree that the whole Bravos storyline seems to be filler. Her time with the Hound was much more interesting. Maybe that is because the guy who plays Sandor Clegane is such a good actor, or simply because Sandor is interesting.

A friend of mine suggested that not only is Jon Snow a Taergaryan, but Tyrion is also and that is why the dragons didn't kill him when he shackled them.

This last episode was a waste. Too much time setting up what we already knew - that Sansa and Jon need the Knights of the Vale to win their home back. The Blackfish battle seemed silly, the recruiting house to fight for Stark drug out, and the Marjory bits were just boring. I hope next weeks show has more teeth.
 

Prime Time

PT
Moderator
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
20,922
Name
Peter
https://theringer.com/ask-the-maester-game-of-thrones-broken-man-72b51604d7d5#.oygaq23du

What the Return of the Hound and the Blackfish Means for ‘Game of Thrones’
By Jason Concepcion
Staff Writer, The Ringer

1*Hl0S4z8AvfVCxHX-15M1Gw.jpeg

Pilgrym/HBO

Shouts to my dude Ian McShane, the best middle reliever in Westeros. He came in, threw 98 on the gun over three scenes, then died. The realm will never see his like again.

On to the questions.

Matt asks, “Is Cleganebowl going to happen?”

This is a question I’ve been getting a lot. Obviously, I couldn’t answer withoutpulling an Ian McShane and spoiling the reveal that The Hound is still alive. BUT, NOW I AM FREE.

“Cleganebowl” refers to the fan theory that Sandor Clegane will volunteer as the champion of the Faith in Cersei’s trial by combat, setting up a duel to the death with his older, bigger brother, the undead Mountain. The theory is supported by the book version of the prophecy that young-Cersei received from the woods witch, Maggy the Frog, which includes a reference to “the valonqar,” High Valyrian for “little brother.”

The argument against the Cleganebowl is that George R.R. Martin rarely provides the kind of satisfying moment — so common in fantasy stories — in which a bad guy is defeated by a good guy in a set-piece showdown. (THEORY: THIS IS PART OF THE REASON HE CAN’T WRITE THE FREAKING ENDING. One of the hallmarks of the story is the way it eschews genre tropes, and, now those are the only kind of moves left.)

In the books, the villains kill the protagonists in intimate fashion, eye to eye and knife to throat. Our heroes never get to administer justice. It’s not that bad deeds necessarily go unpunished — no character goes unscathed in Game of Thrones.

But the repercussions generally manifest in an indirect and dissolute way. Cersei’s walk of shame was the result of her own overreach; Jaime lost his hand because of war, writ large, not because he pushed a child from a window; Joffrey died in satisfying fashion, but his killer and the motives weren’t revealed for a long time; Prince Oberyn showboated on the 1-yard line and got his skull crushed.

In the books, even a clear win, such as Theon helping Arya escape from Bolton-controlled Winterfell, is diluted by the fact that THAT ISN’T REALLY ARYA. George R.R. Martin is, if nothing else, a master at generating narrative blue balls.

The best hope for the Cleganebowl, then, is how (for lack of a better term) fanservicey the showrunners, freed from the book’s canonical road map, have allowed Seasons 5 and 6 to be. In short order, Thrones has given us Benjen Stark — missing since Season 1 — and revealed him to be the mysterious character known in the books as Coldhands (George’s margin scribbled notes to the contrary be damned); Jon Snow’s resurrection following his brief stroll through the valley of death; Brienne’s execution of Stannis (after somehow finding him on the battlefield), fulfilling her vows to King Renly; Arya cutting out Meryn Trant’s eyeballs, crossing his name off her kill list; and Dany amassing a Dothraki army in two episodes while somehow finding time to level up her dragon-riding skill tree.

Perhaps the Cleganebowl is next.

Joseph asks, “Why are Jon, Sansa, and Davos going to the smaller houses first?”

With Karstark and Umber, two of the three strongest houses of the North, already declared for Ramsay, Sansa and Jon don’t really have much choice. Visiting White Harbor, the largest city of the North and the seat of the Manderlys, would mean traversing Bolton-held territory. They’re already taking a huge risk simply by appealing for aid in person. It’s a measure of the respect that House Stark still engenders that Robett Glover didn’t seize Jon and Sansa and hand them over to the Boltons.

1*AbVoAXrjlKc3o1T7tQDyVQ.jpeg

HBO

Paul asks, “Why did Lyanna Mormont accompany Jon, Sansa, and their army on their way to Winterfell?”

That’s just how the Mormont ladies roll. Lyanna’s mother, Maege, went south with Robb Stark when he went to war.

John asks, “How long does it take to get from the Iron Islands to Slaver’s Bay?”

Yara and Theon are actually in Volantis. You can tell by the shot of the Long Bridge, the ancient span connecting the the two halves of the city which contains temples, shops, brothels, and all manner of sundry entertainments.You may remember Tyrion and Varys passing through here in Season 5 before Ser Jorah ran across them in a brothel and kidnapped the Imp.

Volantis is closer to Westeros than Meereen, which is located east of the cursed ruins of the Valyrian peninsula. But, not that much closer, in a global sense. Sailing south from the Iron Islands, across the Summer Sea south of Dorne, and over to Volantis is still a journey of months. Truncated travel across vast distances looks to be the norm from here on out.

Khalil asks, “Is Volantis the Amsterdam or Las Vegas of Game of Thrones?

Lys in Essos, famed for its “pillow houses,” is the Amsterdam and Las Vegas of Game of Thrones. Volantis is kind of like the Monaco of Thrones but if Monaco was a robust military power.

Sofia asks, “Watching Season 1 again, I was shocked to see that Rickon also sees/dreams of Ned in the crypt in the last episode. Does that mean that he is also a warg/greenseer like Bran? Or did Bran ‘transmit’ the dream to him somehow?”

I’ve always felt the Stark children’s ability to bond with their direwolves meant that they all possess some form of warg/greenseer ability, with Bran’s gifts obviously being the strongest.

Alex asks, “Can you give a rundown of what makes the Blackfish such a boss?”

If there’s one person in Westeros who doesn’t know when to quit, it’s the Blackfish. Brynden Tully, the younger brother of Lord Hoster Tully and Catelyn Stark’s uncle, is a legendary figure in Westeros, famed for his military exploits and infamous for his stubbornness. Perhaps the last of Westeros’ old guard, Tully belongs to the generation of lords and knights — like the late Tywin Lannister and Ser Barristan Selmy — who were middle-aged men at the outbreak of Robert’s Rebellion.

Tully, like his contemporary Ser Selmy, first won renown for his knightly prowess during the Fifth Blackfyre Rebellion, better known by the jaunty title “The War of the Ninepenny Kings.” The Blackfish is wiley and industrious; no one knows the Riverlands better and no one is more beloved by its people. (Stannis could have learned something from Brynden.) As leader of Robb Stark’s scouts, he was the now-deceased King in the North’s most trusted battle Commode, the eyes and ears of the Stark army.

Brynden’s sobriquet comes from his numerous public disagreements with his brother, and overlord, Hoster Tully. As a war hero and the brother to the Lord of the Riverlands, Brynden’s betrothal was to be an important vehicle for his family’s advancement. But he refused every match his brother made for him, leading Hoster to call him a “black goat.” Brynden wed the insult to the Tully Trout sigil and renamed himself “the Blackfish.” Then he left the Riverlands for the service of the Arryns of the Vale, where he remained until the outbreak of the War of the Five Kings.

Tully is correct that the Lannisters don’t have time for a protracted siege. An army of 8,000 Lannisters has 8,000 mouths to feed. In stocking Riverrun for a two-year siege, the Blackfish plundered the surrounding lands. This means long, exposed supply lines for the Lannisters and the Freys. Every day of the siege, the Lannister army would lose men to sickness, desertion, and the various armed parties preying on its supply trains. With the balance of power in King’s Landing hanging on a knife’s edge, the realm will be watching events at Riverrun closely for any sign of Lannister weakness.

Ben asks, “Why aren’t the Lannisters more concerned with the Martells and Dorne after they murdered Myrcella?”

The Lannisters simply have more pressing issues than launching what would surely be an expensive and ill-fated invasion of Dorne. With Tommen under the High Sparrow’s sway, the Lannister hold on power is tenuous. The Ironborn are stirring in the west. Winter is coming. DRAGONS ARE COMING. Large swathes of the Riverlands are out of the crown’s control. The Lannisters are hanging on by a thread, and the only reason the Tyrells aren’t moving in with the scissors is they’re in the same position.

Kelli asks, “If Tommen dies before producing an heir, who is his successor?”

Chaos and destruction. Here’s what I wrote about this subject after Episode 2:

“In the past, the realm has called conclaves known as Great Councils to mediate issues of unclear succession. These involve inviting every noble house in Westeros, great and small, to gather in King’s Landing to decide the realm’s next ruler. That only works under most stable of circumstances. Westeros today is falling apart; decimated by war, choked by debt, with an armed religious insurgency controlling large parts of the capital.

Many of the families in the realm are, or have recently been, at war with each other; putting them together in a big room is a nonstarter. If Tommen dies, the Tyrells would likely try to hold on to the throne through Margaery (all the more reason to spring her from her cell as soon as possible) while Cersei would attempt to exercise her power as Queen Regent. (Regent to whom? Such questions do not bother Cersei.) The result would be another war.”

Jelani asks, “Isn’t killing all of those hippies off-brand for the Brotherhood Without Banners? I thought Beric and the boys were just out there killing Lannister and Frey forces?”

Who says those dudes are really in the Brotherhood? Words are wind. I’m dubious until I see Beric and Thoros. I’m betting this is an adaption of a similar event from A Feast for Crows — the massacre at Saltpans — and that this trio of murderers is simply a trio of murderers.

Cody asks, “Where do you think the Hound is currently located?”

If the story line follows the books, Sandor is on Quiet Isle in the Riverlands, located at the mouth of the Trident River on the eastern coast of Westeros.

Brian asks, “What did the rose Margaery Tyrell gave Lady Olenna symbolize?”

The rose is the symbol of House Tyrell. By passing that note, Margaery is letting her grandmother know that while it appears she’s been indoctrinated into the High Sparrow’s militant version of the Faith, she’s still a Tyrell of Highgarden. Since Margaery was a child, Lady Olenna has been preparing her to rule — and not the fairy tale version of governance, either. Margaery knows how to use her public image to further a goal while keeping it separate from the backroom machinations necessary for wielding power.

In Season 2, Margaery was unfazed by Renly’s inability to consummate their marriage. “Do you want my brother to come in and help?” Margaery asks. “Well, he could get you started?” She understood that the way to secure her family’s hold on power was to produce a male heir; the route taken was of lesser importance than getting there. Margaery is running the same sort of game now, just with higher stakes.
 

FrantikRam

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Oct 16, 2013
Messages
4,713
I have read a lot lately about Aryan being a Warg. That 'shift alt x' fellow does a good piece on her. Her Dire Wolf Nymeria is still alive and leading a pack of a hundred wolves through the Forrest. If a warg dies they can become the animal they warg into. There has also been this theme of her being a lone wolf and paralleled to the Hound. So, does she finish out alone and become Nymeria and fight White Walkers as a wolf?

I do agree that the whole Bravos storyline seems to be filler. Her time with the Hound was much more interesting. Maybe that is because the guy who plays Sandor Clegane is such a good actor, or simply because Sandor is interesting.

A friend of mine suggested that not only is Jon Snow a Taergaryan, but Tyrion is also and that is why the dragons didn't kill him when he shackled them.

This last episode was a waste. Too much time setting up what we already knew - that Sansa and Jon need the Knights of the Vale to win their home back. The Blackfish battle seemed silly, the recruiting house to fight for Stark drug out, and the Marjory bits were just boring. I hope next weeks show has more teeth.


I do not think it is possible that Tyrion is a Taergaryan because so much emphasis has been put on Tywin Lannister hating Tyrion because Tywin's wife died in child berth - this all happened before hand, so anything is possible, but it just doesn't make sense.

I think the show is cutting Bravos because they have a vision to end the show - but in the books, in one of the prologues or epilogues (hard to keep them straight), Jaqen h'ghar (or another faceless man) assassinates a man in Old Town and takes his face....and if I remember right, poses as that man when Sam Tarly arrives to Old Town (this happened at different parts of the book so it was hard to keep straight).

The Many-Faced God is one of two that we have seen that actually have supernatural abilities....so I think there is more to that storyline in the books and that it will keep going. It would appear that the natural enemy of the Lord of Light would be the White Walkers because of the whole fire/ice thing - but most stories have a larger, richer history of rivals....and I cannot imagine that the only enemy that we'll see for the Lord of Light (and the Dragons as they seem tied together by the whole fire thing) are some zombies created by the Children of the Forest....doesn't fit to me.

In the books we haven't seen the White Walkers much at all....no Night King and the only ones we have seen are just the weak zombies that can be killed fairly easily - not that the Walkers won't come into play, because they obviously will, but it would make more sense to me if the actual big faceoff was between the Many-Faced God and the Lord of Light....can't see it happening yet, and it would appear that the Lord of Light has a lot more followers...but them being the only Gods that seem to actually be, well, Gods, makes me think there will be more to that storyline.



I could end up wrong about all of this and the Winds of Winter could play out similarly to this season.
 

FrantikRam

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Oct 16, 2013
Messages
4,713
Also, in the book there is a good white walker (at least that's how he is described) that assists Bran and his group beyond the wall to get to the 3 eyed crow (it's crow in the book, raven in the show). The characters name is Cold Hands and I wasn't even aware until recently that a lot of people theorize that this is actually Benjen Stark. In the books Cold Hands cannot enter the domain of the 3 eyed crow so he is not currently with Bran, but the arrival of Benjen Stark kind of taking the role of Cold Hands (in that he's protecting Bran and his group beyond the wall) lends some credence to that theory.

Enter River Run - another character that was cut from the show but that could be of importance down the line is Lady Stoneheart - which is Catelyn Stark brought back from the dead.

Beric Dondarrion was the leader of the brotherhood without banners - if you remember, he fought the hound and died but was brought back to life by Thoros, a red priest like Melisandre (it is because of this that so many people were certain that Melisandre would resurrect Jon Snow). Beric and his group come across Catelyn Stark, throat slit and dead after the red wedding, and he decides to give his life for hers using the Last Kiss, somehow transferring is strange life force to her. She is resurrected but is essentially a zombie now.

In the books, near River Run Lady Stoneheart encounters Brienne of Tarth and commands her to deliver Jamie Lannister to her - now in the show you have Brienne and Jamie on a collision course for River Run, and the appearance of a character that seemed to be cut from the show (Cold Hands/Benjen Stark) - so I think that we will in fact be introduced to Lady Stoneheart in this season.

I actually read this on line somewhere, so I can't take credit for piecing all that together - but it does make sense.
 

Psycho_X

Legend
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
11,146
I do not think it is possible that Tyrion is a Taergaryan because so much emphasis has been put on Tywin Lannister hating Tyrion because Tywin's wife died in child berth - this all happened before hand, so anything is possible, but it just doesn't make sense.

GoT theories are kind of a dime a dozen but the general theory behind Tyrion being a Targaryen is that there were always rumors or hints that Tywin's wife fooled around with Aerys Targaryen all the time. Aerys hated Tywin and vice versa and it was Tywin that marched into King's Landing to kill Aerys to end the war that saw Robert made king (even though Jaimie had already stabbed him in the back). And Tywin knew his wife messed around and he always suspected Tyrion was a bastard and that's why he hated him so much on top of Tyrion killing his mother in birth. Also, in the book Tyrion is much uglier than his siblings with pale hair and not the traditional Lannister gold and has mixed colored eyes which Jaime/cersei both have green. Tywin always made jabs about Tyrion not being his son and even his final words are telling Tyrion he is no son of his. Tyrion also had a deep curiosity and interest in dragons growing up to the point that he studied every known material about them obsessively.

The theory is that Jon is of course a Targaryen due to R+L=J and that eventually Tyrion will be revealed as one and them along with Daenarys will be the three dragon riders legend tells of. Of course, this all speculation and there are many, many theories about GoT so who knows really. That's a true testament to GRRM's writing that he created such a rich saga with so many characters and lore that it can create so many theories about it.
 

Tron

Fights for the User
Joined
Jun 1, 2013
Messages
7,803
Name
Tron
Those are all my beliefs, both the Tyrion one and the R+L=J @Psycho_X
Also, as Aerys was the (mad)king, he could do what he wanted, including sleeping with whomever he wanted, like Joanna(Tywins wife).

One thing that cant be overlooked in the theory of Jon and Tyrion being part Targaryen is that women who give birth to Targaryens die a lot of the time. Daenerys's mother died in birth. Tyrions mom died from his birth, and Lyanna died shortly after Ned found her in a bed of blood in the Tower of joy.
 

Elmgrovegnome

Legend
Joined
Jan 23, 2013
Messages
21,605
Also, in the book there is a good white walker (at least that's how he is described) that assists Bran and his group beyond the wall to get to the 3 eyed crow (it's crow in the book, raven in the show). The characters name is Cold Hands and I wasn't even aware until recently that a lot of people theorize that this is actually Benjen Stark. In the books Cold Hands cannot enter the domain of the 3 eyed crow so he is not currently with Bran, but the arrival of Benjen Stark kind of taking the role of Cold Hands (in that he's protecting Bran and his group beyond the wall) lends some credence to that theory.

Enter River Run - another character that was cut from the show but that could be of importance down the line is Lady Stoneheart - which is Catelyn Stark brought back from the dead.

Beric Dondarrion was the leader of the brotherhood without banners - if you remember, he fought the hound and died but was brought back to life by Thoros, a red priest like Melisandre (it is because of this that so many people were certain that Melisandre would resurrect Jon Snow). Beric and his group come across Catelyn Stark, throat slit and dead after the red wedding, and he decides to give his life for hers using the Last Kiss, somehow transferring is strange life force to her. She is resurrected but is essentially a zombie now.

In the books, near River Run Lady Stoneheart encounters Brienne of Tarth and commands her to deliver Jamie Lannister to her - now in the show you have Brienne and Jamie on a collision course for River Run, and the appearance of a character that seemed to be cut from the show (Cold Hands/Benjen Stark) - so I think that we will in fact be introduced to Lady Stoneheart in this season.

I actually read this on line somewhere, so I can't take credit for piecing all that together - but it does make sense.


It will be interesting to see if Lady Stoneheart shows up or not. I thought that part of the book was left out and wouldn't happen. However, they did bring the brotherhood back into the fray. How Sandor Clegane will fit into the whole thing is also interesting. JRRM has certainly woven an enormous web. I used to be an avid fantasy fiction fan and don't recall any books that were so intricately expansive with characters. I don't know if I would have been able to keep track of it all actually.
 

OldSchool

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
ROD Credit | 2022 TOP Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
38,390
IMO a fairly lackluster GoT this week but the preview for next week looks interesting.
 

Elmgrovegnome

Legend
Joined
Jan 23, 2013
Messages
21,605
IMO a fairly lackluster GoT this week but the preview for next week looks interesting.


Yeah, I was expecting more action. I did enjoy both of the Clegane's, Sandor and Mountain, battles but I wanted more. I was hoping to watch the Monster destroy that entire group of warrior wannabes. Those robe wearing fairies that think they are tough because they walk around in groups with weapons need a good beat down in front of everyone. The previews had my hopes up. Tommen is turning out to be a waste of space. Cersei might as well have the Monster rip his head off too.

I really hoped that the Blackfish would help Sansa but it seems the story is for a bleak battle that looks like the Starks will lose and suddenly be saved by the Knights of the Vale. The poor wildlings will have their asses handed to them.
 

dieterbrock

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
22,896
I really hoped that the Blackfish would help Sansa but it seems the story is for a bleak battle that looks like the Starks will lose and suddenly be saved by the Knights of the Vale
Could still happen though. When does a character like Blackfish get killed off screen and not in some glorious fashion?
I'm thinking that his guys knew they made mistake right away and came to his rescue more than to capture him
 

Psycho_X

Legend
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
11,146
Yeah the last couple episodes have been pretty weak. But next week is the episode 9 extravaganza that GoT has been known for with big battles and bigger deaths. Be interesting to see if they throw viewers for any loops since it all seems fairly obvious at this point how the battle is going to go with the Vale saving the day as Elm said above. I'm guessing Rickon will be killed in some horrible fashion by Ramsay in front of Jon and Sansa that'll start the dramatic GoT music with the two of them looking shocked and pissed, a heroic charge by them and their wildling army, some awesome fighting, and just when it looks like they will die the Vale will ride in and kick some ass or possibly the Umbers betray Ramsay. The question will be if they kill anyone off that we like.

I get a distinct feeling that the Lannister (Baratheon) reign is about to end. According to the witch that told Cersei's fortune all of her kids will die before her. I'm guessing Tommen's dumbass is about to bite it and it'll send Cersei over the edge into madness. Jaime is going to have to put her down to spare the city. It's funny that out of all the characters in the show I think Jaime has been responsible for saving more lives than anyone else (killing the mad king before he supposedly was going to burn king's landing and creating a peaceful resolution instead of sieging Riverrun and possibly saving King's Landing from Cersei) after he was set up to be such a dick in the beginning of the book/show.
 

Elmgrovegnome

Legend
Joined
Jan 23, 2013
Messages
21,605
Could still happen though. When does a character like Blackfish get killed off screen and not in some glorious fashion?
I'm thinking that his guys knew they made mistake right away and came to his rescue more than to capture him

Yeah I guess it could be. But that was Lannister men that reported to Jamie that they found the Blackfish and he died in combat.
 

dieterbrock

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
22,896
I normally despise when movies/shows depict children fighting like adults, but Arya kicks ass. Love the way that ended up.
Been a slow build with her but I look forward to see where they take her now
 

Prime Time

PT
Moderator
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
20,922
Name
Peter
https://theringer.com/ask-the-maester-the-high-sparrow-cleganebowl-837ce46e2de1#.w89zgqw7n

The High Sparrow’s Long-Term Plan, the Canceled Cleganebowl, and the Future of the North
By Jason Concepcion
Staff Writer, The Ringer


Episode 8, “No One,” is the calm before Game of Thrones’ traditional Episode 9 storm. By abolishing trial by combat, King Tommen has unwittingly dashed our hopes for the Cleganebowl. That leaves us only the Bastard Bowl to look forward to. Get hype.

On to the questions.

John asks, “Do we know what the ‘rumor’ that Cersei was told about is? Has that been mentioned in the past?”

After Bran’s visions of wildfire exploding in “Blood of My Blood,” I wrote about the Mad King’s secret doomsday plot to level King’s Landing using the viscous green explosive. (Long story short, Jaime Lannister killed the Mad King and his Hand, Rossart, before the caches could be detonated and, in the days after the fall of the city, hunted down the remaining plotters.)

Though some of the wildfire caches were discovered and used for the Battle of the Blackwater, I suspect Qyburn located whatever remains for Cersei, who plans to use it as her last-ditch, get-out-of-trial-free card. This corresponds to the “Mad Queen” theory, which is less a theory and more an accurate reading of Cersei’s character.

Julian asks, “Is the High Sparrow playing the long con? By convincing King Tommen to ban trial by combat, he ensures that Cersei will lose. If she loses, it proves that she committed incest and thus Tommen has no rightful claim to the throne. Would the High Sparrow rule the throne until another king is determined?”

I doubt the Sparrow wants to rule the Seven Kingdoms, or would accept the position if given the chance. Moreover, while the Faith Militant is strong in the capital, it doesn’t have the strength to hold the continent.

The High Sparrow, unlike everyone else in King’s Landing, does not scheme. He does exactly what he says he’s going to do. Assuming that he has ulterior motives and could be bargained with like any other grasping court-hanger-on is why Cersei now finds herself about to stand trial. The Sparrow legitimately cares about the poor, the Faith, and justice. That’s what makes him so relentless.

The previous High Septon would preside solemnly over the Great Sept of Baelor in his fine robes before heading over to Littlefinger’s for some after-hours bondage play (safe word: the stranger). If you want to find the High Sparrow, he’s in that dingy little room in the back, barefoot, wearing a cloth sack, deep in prayer all the time.

The Sparrow’s stock could not possibly be higher. You have to wonder: Is it possible that he’s been seduced by the immense power he now wields? He has Tommen under his thumb and has free rein to shape the realm’s policy.

When the Faith Militant rose against the Targaryens during the reigns of Kings Aenys (pronounced exactly how you think) and Maegor, one of the core grievances (along with the Targaryens’ aggressive, incestuous marriage policy) was judicial independence, i.e., whose court, the Faith’s or the realm’s, would have final say in cases involving members of the clergy.

Exhausted from generations of persecution and war, the Faith eventually gave up their claim, along with their weapons, as part of the peace deal brokered by King Jaehaerys the Conciliator sometime around 48 AC.

More than 250 years later, and seemingly in the blink of an eye, the High Sparrow has wrestled not just independence, but judicial superiority from the crown’s feeble grip. With Tommen’s decision to allow the trials of two notable members of the nobility to proceed, and his unprecedented decree to abolish trial by combat (good luck enforcing this), Westerosi law essentially has been unified under the control of the Faith. That’s a pretty sweet deal.

The Faith, then, has a lot riding on the legitimacy of King Tommen. If he is found to not be the rightful king, or something else happens to him (and, let’s face it, something is going to happen to Tommen; the boy is too soft to live), whoever rules next would likely be loathe to honor the decision of an incest king which drastically weakened the throne and has no precedent in history. Of course, the septons could always find Cersei guilty of incest, regicide, etc., without actually ruling on whether the king is a product of incest.

Francisco asks, “So trial by combat was banned all over Westeros, are we to assume that trial of seven has also been banned or could we still have Cleganebowl, just bigger?”

The trial of seven refers to an ancient and rarely used form of trial by combat that features seven champions to a side. It has been invoked only twice, but there’s precedent for it being used by the Faith. In 42 AC, the Faith Militant challenged King Maegor the Cruel to a trial of seven to settle questions surrounding his right to inherit the throne.

(Fair questions, by the way. The rules of succession stated that Prince Aegon, the eldest son of the late King Aenys, should have been crowned King Aegon II. When the Grand Maester of the Red Keep mentioned this, Maegor cut off his head, reportedly with a single stroke of his sword. The lesson: Don’t mess with a man nicknamed “The Cruel.”) The Faith lost; King Maegor, who had been besting knights in tournaments since he was 13, was the last man standing.

Considering the way the Faith’s last trial by seven went down, and the blanket language of King Tommen’s decree, I doubt we see the Cleganebowl.

Khaliel asks, “How skilled is Ramsay on the battlefield?”

Not very. But he enjoys so many advantages over Jon and Sansa that his relative inexperience as a military Commode may not matter. He has a larger army, which includes heavy cavalry, something the Starks do not have. He’ll be fighting on his home ground (sad emoji) with the walls of Winterfell at his back, so his forces should be well rested and provisioned while Jon and Sansa’s ragtag army has been marching for days if not weeks and living off the land.

The spine of the Stark forces is made up of wildlings; the most elite of the Free Folk’s fighters, the kind of people Tormund selected to climb the Wall and attack Castle Black, but still no match for disciplined armored knights in a set-piece battle. Jon and Sansa do have a giant, which is dope. But they’ll need a lot of luck and, I don’t know, a huge force of knights — maybe from the Vale??? — to ride in at just the right moment.

Taylor asks, “What’s with Edmure just surrendering the castle?”

To be fair, Edmure was in a very tough spot. Jaime was offering generous terms: safe passage for the Tully rebels who lay down their arms (those who wish to do so may take the black or enter the Freys’ service); a comfortable life for Edmure and Roslin as high-born prisoners at Casterly Rock; and a holdfast and lands for their son.

Of course, this is all contingent on the notoriously dishonorable Freys honoring their part of the deal (no chance they let Tully rebels leave the area alive) and the word of notable oathbreaker Ser Jaime the Kingslayer. If Edmure refused, the Lannisters and Freys would storm Riverrun, kill everyone inside, execute him and his child, and bring the curtain down on the ancient house of Tully.

Still, the Riverlands will remember Edmure Tully the same way that Draymond Green thinks of LeBron James. It would not have escaped Jaime’s notice that, before he arrived, the Freys were besieging Riverrun alone. That speaks to the antipathy that the Freys engender among their supposed vassals and the respect that the Riverlands have for the Tullys. Even the Boltons have supporters!

David asks, “Now that Jaime has possession of Riverrun, why are Jaime and Brienne still enemies?”

Jaime will give the castle to the Freys because Walder Frey is Lord Paramount of the Trident and the Lord of Riverrun, i.e., the Boss of the Riverlands. Tywin Lannister, acting in the name of King Joffrey, awarded Walder these titles for his complicity in the slaughter of Robb Stark’s family and bannermen at the Red Wedding. Brienne is the sworn sword of Sansa Stark, who is still a suspect in Joffrey’s poisoning and is currently engaged in an open rebellion against the Boltons, the current Wardens of the North.

There are complicating issues (Roose betrayed the Lannisters when he married Sansa to Ramsay, and also Roose is dead), but essentially Jaime and Brienne are on opposing sides of the larger, somehow still ongoing war between the Starks and Lannisters.

Cody asks, “Does the arrival of Beric Dondarrion signify the end to the Lady Stoneheart hopes?”

DISCLAIMER: Lady Stoneheart is a book character that show watchers SHOULD NOT Google.

I believe so, yes. RIP Lady Stoneheart.

Lisa asks, “Could Tommen be the valonqar?”

Sure, why not? Valonqar means “little brother” in High Valyrian. This is a reference to the book version of the Maggy the Frog prophecy, seen in the first episode of Season 5, which states that “the valonqar shall wrap his hands about [Cersei’s] pale, white throat …” Valonqar theorizing is a deep rabbit hole and there are no shortage of potential suspects.

There is some evidence that High Valyrian is a gender-neutral language — in the books, Maester Aemon tells Sam that the Valyrian word for “dragon” is “neither male nor female.” Extending this to valonqar is a stretch, but if you subscribe to this reading, basically every younger sibling in the story is potentially the valonqar.

Chris asks, “If Sansa/Jon Snow win the Battle of the Bastards and retake the North, how much legit trouble are the Glovers in for not answering the call of the banners?”

The level of retribution would depend on if the Glovers actually take up arms against the Starks. If Sansa and Jon win (AND THEY BETTER WIN), they can’t afford to spend the aftermath of the battle settling scores. What the Starks will need desperately is support. This is a constant theme of Game of Thrones: winning the battle is easier than everything that comes after.

The knights of the Vale (assuming they’re involved in the battle) will eventually go home and it will be a long-ass time before the wildlings are accepted by the people of the North. Sansa and Jon will need to win native Northern support, even if that means forgiving the Glovers, and yes, even the Umbers and Karstarks. (Extremely Die Hard voice: “THE BOLTONS ARE TOAAAAAST.”)

Tywin Lannister said it best: “When your enemies defy you, you must serve them steel and fire. When they go to their knees, however, you must help them back to their feet. Elsewise no man will ever bend the knee to you.” Joffrey didn’t listen. Hopefully Sansa and Jon will. (ALSO, THEY BETTER WIN.)
 

Corbin

THIS IS MY BOOOOOMSTICK!!
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
11,099
The Hkund is back! The Hound us back! One of my favorite characters! I thought the dude was dead for sure! Lol. I love how he talks shit but it's factual!

Bring back Ned Stark now...
 

Elmgrovegnome

Legend
Joined
Jan 23, 2013
Messages
21,605
The Hkund is back! The Hound us back! One of my favorite characters! I thought the dude was dead for sure! Lol. I love how he talks crap but it's factual!

Bring back Ned Stark now...

I like the hound too. Great actor and character. "Stop pointing that arrow at me you girl" and "your shit at dying". Great lines. He is the modern day Dirty Harry.
 

Corbin

THIS IS MY BOOOOOMSTICK!!
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
11,099
I like the hound too. Great actor and character. "Stop pointing that arrow at me you girl" and "your crap at dying". Great lines. He is the modern day Dirty Harry.
Hey really is! Lol makes my ass laugh! Love how he negotiated to kill two of those three dudes! Lol
 

Mackeyser

Supernovas are where gold forms; the only place.
Joined
Apr 26, 2013
Messages
14,158
Name
Mack
As soon as Tommen announced "no trial by combat", I was like "welp...if I didn't have a reason to want to see ya dead before, I do now. Three for three. What is it with you Lannister kids?"

Arya is one of my faves. I just had a feeling as she was limping along that she was setting a trap. Otherwise, I was going to throw something at my tv if they killed off Arya... But the way she took care of business...in the dark. Perfect.

The Hound was fantastic.

Is it just me or does the High Sparrow's fall need to be...literal? Cersei will see to that if she can.
 

-X-

Medium-sized Lebowski
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Messages
35,576
Name
The Dude
Arya is one of my faves. I just had a feeling as she was limping along that she was setting a trap. Otherwise, I was going to throw something at my tv if they killed off Arya... But the way she took care of business...in the dark. Perfect.
I'm still waiting for the prophecy Melisandre spoke *to* Arya *about* Arya to come to fruition.

Remember?


View: https://youtu.be/yAyCpREHf6k