From Joe Roderick, St. Louis Sports Radio host RE: Fisher's future

[VegasRam]

Tom Clements (GB). Scott Vanillahan (Dallas). Hue Jackson (Cincy). Darrell Bevell (Seattle). Bill Musgrave (Oakland). What do I win?

"The exception that proves the rule" Award.
Nice going, (if you didn't look it up, and I don't think you did).

 

[blue4]

That's not entirely true, but you still came up with a very valid point. We need better QB play before this offense can get going. No opposing defense is going to fear the passing game, so they can just play man coverage and throw everyone else in the box. It's the reason why we see so many reverses, fake reverses, and other misdirection plays that can slow the defense down for like a 1/4 second while we try a play-action fake.

Sad that we spent a #1 overall and now find ourselves needing another QB.

I really don't feel like it requires a QB to be top shelf. Just a OL that can protect, a QB that's smart, and an offensive design that gives creativity in the passing game an equal billing in the offense strategy. Just a Marc Bulger and a little creativity has this team at 10 plus wins IMO. Add a decent line that doesn't make every drive start at 1st and 20 and it's a contender. But I don't think Fisher and the coaches he likes can develop a QB, and I don't have confidence he will ever view passing as a viable offensive tool. Todd Gurley would annihilate defenses and give him his running dominance if he didn't open every game with the intention to hand off and see what happens. Again, just my opinion. Being from STL the only times we have ever had successful football is opening up the offense. The more conventional over the decades, the bigger the thud we've had so that colors my opinion a great deal I imagine, but I think it's a valid one be in today's game.

 

[jap]

It might be better for the Horns to trade for a starting QB than to try to move up for a blue chip QB rookie, along with the years of development & frustration that will entail. They need their young OL guys to grow stronger & savvier in their first NFL off-season to form that near mythical Battering Ram OL wall last seen during ED's Horns' heyday. They need that wall for TGII to blow away ED's seasonal rushing record, and I doubt TGII has a bigger cheering section than ED & Herschel themselves. They can use another deep threat to complement Wes, Tavon, and TGII.

It's really a crying shame that Sam couldn't make it work here. I really thought we would have made the playoffs in 2013 & 2014 with a healthy Sam. It's incredible that such a workout warrior housed such a fragile body---at least in certain critical points.

 

[Rmfnlt]

'd say he did pretty good.

Yeah... productivity really never was the issue with Martz.

It was his inability to get along with others that repeatedly sunk him.

Great mind... gets results... but people can't work with him. That last one will kill a career every time... be it sports, entertainment, business, whatever.

As far as an extension for Fisher... doesn't surprise me one bit. We'll see if it turns out to be true... still a few games to play this season.

 

[Prime Time]

Yeah... productivity really never was the issue with Martz.

It was his inability to get along with others that repeatedly sunk him.

Great mind... gets results... but people can't work with him. That last one will kill a career every time... be it sports, entertainment, business, whatever.

As far as an extension for Fisher... doesn't surprise me one bit. We'll see if it turns out to be true... still a few games to play this season.

Most of the bitching and moaning about Martz most likely came from his QB's due to the fact that Martz viewed QB's as interchangeable parts in his offense. He didn't care about sacks or turnovers as long as the offense was pedal to the metal. The exact opposite of the Fisher philosophy.

If Martz was the Rams OC this season the fanbase would not be bitching and moaning about lack of points but instead turnovers, sacks allowed, and injuries to the QB's.

 

[jap]

Most of the bitching and moaning about Martz most likely came from his QB's due to the fact that Martz viewed QB's as interchangeable parts in his offense. He didn't care about sacks or turnovers as long as the offense was pedal to the metal. The exact opposite of the Fisher philosophy.

If Martz was the Rams OC this season the fanbase would not be bitching and moaning about lack of points but instead turnovers, sacks allowed, and injuries to the QB's.

. . . unless Fish & Mad Mike had a gentlemen's agreement to protect the QB as the most valuable piece of the gridiron chessboard. This would probably necessitate having TE's who were good blockers and good receivers, and who became extensions of the OL. However, with Mad Mike being a WR guru and a QB guru, we would definitely get upgrades there as well.

I know you were talking about Mike as a 2015 OC, but I still have my crazy fantasy of having super aggressive DC Greg Williams paired with super aggressive OC Mad Mike Martz. It could happen . . .

 

[Rmfnlt]

Most of the bitching and moaning about Martz most likely came from his QB's due to the fact that Martz viewed QB's as interchangeable parts in his offense. He didn't care about sacks or turnovers as long as the offense was pedal to the metal. The exact opposite of the Fisher philosophy.

If Martz was the Rams OC this season the fanbase would not be bitching and moaning about lack of points but instead turnovers, sacks allowed, and injuries to the QB's.

Yeah... I seem to recall Cutler was not a fan.

I remember going to a Rams game in STL a few years back... I think we beat the Seahawks that game? Can't remember (wonder why )... doesn't matter... Lenny and I were watching the Sunday Night game in the hotel... It was Da Bears... can't remember who they were playing... but Cutler was getting crucified... the announcers wouldn't stop blaming Martz and his refusal to adjust the drop backs to protect Cutler, at least a little.

I know Martz has his disciples... but there is no denying he was hard to get along with and stubborn as all get-out.

If he became this team's OC? With this Oline (even if it was healthy... it's still green)?

Good Lord... whoever is at QB had better be mobile as hell and wearing armor.

I chuckle when fans clamor for him to be the OC for us today... talk about a bad fit. And, of course, there's the "personality issue" he'd have with Fisher.

Never would happen... probably for the best.

 

[den-the-coach]

I don't expect any assistant coaching changes. Remember that scout felt like the Rams were Superbowl contenders? That came from the coaches. Fisher is gonna chalk this one up to bad luck with injuries.

I hope they at least find a QB.

I disagree, IMO, there will be many changes on the offensive side of the coaching staff. Fisher tried to interview others last season too so rather it's some moving on to college so they can take the honorable way out or resigning for health reasons I strongly believe you will see at the very minimum three changes on the offensive side of the ball..OC, WR & OL and would not be shocked if there are more.

Fisher will have to do this you can't keep stating year after year it's because of bad luck, they've played that card with Bradford far too much. Other teams have faced far more injuries than the Rams like the Giants & Patriots for example and they are doing just fine. Enough is enough either shlt of get off the pot and Fisher needs to start realizing he needs an offensive coordinator who is on the same level as his defensive coordinator.

 

[Rmfnlt]

but I still have my crazy fantasy

It is a fantasy..

It could happen

And no, it couldn't happen.

 

[Prime Time]

I know you were talking about Mike as a 2015 OC, but I still have my crazy fantasy of having super aggressive DC Greg Williams paired with super aggressive OC Mad Mike Martz. It could happen . . .

As long as Fisher is the HC it will never happen. Fisher would have to go through concussion protocol after every game from banging his head on the bench or some other solid object. Martz is the anti-Fisher.

Lenny and I were watching the Sunday Night game in the hotel...

Lenny Kravitz? Lenny from the Simpsons? :mrburns:

Good Lord... whoever is at QB had better be mobile as hell and wearing armor.

We've had plenty of injuries at the QB position with our play-it-safe philosophy.

 

[jap]

It is a fantasy..

And no, it couldn't happen.

It's always amazing to me how some fans feel they just know! coaches, players, owners, etc. so well that they could tell with 100% accuracy what can and can't happen. Never say never as necessities can drive the association of curious bedfellows.

 

[Rmfnlt]

Lenny Kravitz? Lenny from the Simpsons?

No... much more famous than those guys!

 

[jap]

As long as Fisher is the HC it will never happen. Fisher would have to go through concussion protocol after every game from banging his head on the bench or some other solid object. Martz is the anti-Fisher.

Fisher is just as aggressive as Mad Mike on defense and special teams. It is only with offense that they differ. That's where they must have a meeting of the minds that can only be beneficial to all. Mad Mike would have to protect the QB (solid OL, solid run/pass blocking TE's/RB's), and Fish would have to open up the offense (good/great WR's, pass catching TE's/RB's).

 

[Rmfnlt]

It's always amazing to me how some fans feel they just know! coaches, players, owners, etc. so well that they could tell with 100% accuracy what can and can't happen. Never say never as necessities can drive the association of curious bedfellows.

Oh, I agree... anything can happen...

But I feel about as strongly on this as anything I have ever felt...

Tell ya what... save this thread... if it ever came to pass, I'll push all my ROD money to ya!!

 

[Prime Time]

Fisher is just as aggressive as Mad Mike on defense and special teams. It is only with offense that they differ. That's where they must have a meeting of the minds that can only be beneficial to all. Mad Mike would have to protect the QB (solid OL, solid run/pass blocking TE's/RB's), and Fish would have to open up the offense (good/great WR's, pass catching TE's/RB's).

Well that's obvious. Fisher is aggressive on defense and passive on offense. Protecting the QB would negate what Martz would want to do so that wouldn't work. Btw what is it with Martz's disdain for using TE's?

 

[-X-]

I really don't feel like it requires a QB to be top shelf. Just a OL that can protect, a QB that's smart, and an offensive design that gives creativity in the passing game an equal billing in the offense strategy. Just a Marc Bulger and a little creativity has this team at 10 plus wins IMO. Add a decent line that doesn't make every drive start at 1st and 20 and it's a contender. But I don't think Fisher and the coaches he likes can develop a QB, and I don't have confidence he will ever view passing as a viable offensive tool. Todd Gurley would annihilate defenses and give him his running dominance if he didn't open every game with the intention to hand off and see what happens. Again, just my opinion. Being from STL the only times we have ever had successful football is opening up the offense. The more conventional over the decades, the bigger the thud we've had so that colors my opinion a great deal I imagine, but I think it's a valid one be in today's game.

I don't think the QB has to be elite either. Just a good one like Eli. We've been trying to build the O-line around here for years and years and years, so all we can do is keep trying. The amount of injuries inflicted upon that unit over the years is staggering, and even the one year where it was decent (2010), all of the receivers were bleh and we had a rookie QB. The stars just never seem to align for us.

I think Fisher's coaches *can* develop a QB if you look at it in a vacuum. We have good coaches in Cignetti, Wienke and Garcia, but they can only do so much when the O-line is dropping like flies and the QBs start to hear footsteps every time they drop back due to being pummeled half the time. You can teach to encyclopedic levels, but panic ruins everything a QB has learned in those moments. Which is why I'd like a QB who has already mastered fundamentals and a couple more veteran O-linemen as part of my off-season wish list. That, and a stud WR in the draft. While it would be nice to light up the scoreboard like a pinball machine again, I just don't think you can build two elite units and expect to keep them all signed. If you pair an elite defense with an offense that can average 24 points a game, then you've really got something. All things considered, I'd rather get into the postseason with that, than an offense that scores 37 and a defense that gives up 40.

 

[MountainRam]

Folks, rumor mill has it that Rams leaked information about Fisher extension to ensure players keep playing hard. The message is Fisher is going no where and players should have no thought of quit in the effort. So thingy is, don't expect an extension announcement late into off-season.

 

[jap]

Well that's obvious. Fisher is aggressive on defense and passive on offense. Protecting the QB would negate what Martz would want to do so that wouldn't work. Btw what is it with Martz's disdain for using TE's?

I don't know if Mike ever had a great pass catching TE. Pete Holihan, who preceded Martz' two stints with the Horns, played with Henry Ellard & Flipper Anderson and had the softest hands of the three. He thrilled me with his acrobatic one hand catches, and I was always frustrated that the Horns didn't feature him more often. However, Pete never possessed the swiftest feet and that probably hindered his separation skills.

With Martz in 1999, Ernie Conwell the former decathlete, served as starting TE. At 6-feet, 1-inch; 265 pounds, he was the undisputed weight room warrior king for the Horns during his time with us. He had decent but not great hands and served essentially as another OL guy where his great strength & low stature (imparting great leverage---much like AD) allowed him handle DE's/LB's one on one. He was a great run/pass blocker.

Mike also employed Roland Williams, Jeff Robinson (a converted DE), and Chad Lewis as TE's. These were all utility guys that provided decent blocking but had average paws at best.

Regarding the mythical meeting of minds between The Fisher King and Mad Mike, Mike might say, "While you are scaring the crap out of me with your defensive/special teams moves, it's only fair that I be allowed to scare the crap out of you with my offensive philosophy. I know QB's and WR's much better than you do. Let me do my thing while yo"u do yours. I will agree to a stout OL and solid blockers at TE, but let me orchestrate the offense."

 

[nighttrain]

Can we get back Mad Mike ? I's love him back with Horns, but know it wont happen
train

 

[nighttrain]

Yeah... I seem to recall Cutler was not a fan.

And Cutler has had such a great career!
NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!
train