For discussion sake, trade down scenario (w/ KC)

[OC--LeftCoast]

Well, lets see...Patriots had Gronkowski and Edelman. Basically the same thing. Seattle had Golden Taint who put up huge numbers in Detroit because Detroit actually throws the ball. Ravens had Torrey Smith, Anquan Boldin, and Dennis Pitta. That's quite a set of weapons. Giants had Victor Cruz and Hakeem Nicks. Both guys put up 1000+ yards that year. Packers had Greg Jennings, James Jones, Jordy Nelson, and Donald Driver, they weren't exactly hurting for weapons. The Saints had Marques Colston. The Steelers had Santonio Holmes, Hines Ward, Nate Washington, and Heath Miller...that's one heck of a set of weapons. The Giants had Plaxico Burress, Amani Toomer, and Jeremy Shocker. The Colts had Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, and Dallas Clark.

Seattle and the Saints were the only teams that didn't have multiple good weapons at WR/TE.

You must have missed the bolded part of my quote, hell even our current WRs & TE can be "good" weapons (Need someone to get them the ball (of course you know that)

I advocate for talent. I'm not going to draft an inferior OL over Kevin White because White is a WR. I want us to draft an OL in Round 1...but I'm not passing on Kevin White or Amari Cooper if they make it to #10 for an inferior player like Brandon Scherff.

I'm not 100% sure Scherff is their guy but...inferior? I guess time will tell on that one (hard to compare their relative value before they've played a down)

If you've seen my mocks, I want a deep and dominant OL as much as the next guy.

I have seen them, I would say then you better draft the very best O lineman should providence allow him to drop in your lap. (not talking about a project like Clemmings either, one's enough) a sure thing 10 year perennial pro-bowler. (easier said then done I know) In a perfect world we'd all love Cooper and knock it out of the park with a 2nd or 3rd round lineman, more on that in a moment.

I'm all for a dominant OL but there's more than one way to build a successful team. The Rams shouldn't sacrifice talent for need. You see what happens when they draft talent...like Aaron Donald. We need as many Donalds on this team as we can get. But they do need to make a couple smart moves in FA with OLs. I really hope to see them come out of FA with two solid OLs that are capable of starting. And then, hopefully, they continue to supplement the OL in the draft with another 2-3 talented players.

Not a fan of the FA thing tho I do agree if would behoove them to get the youngest non injury prone interior FA O lineman available. They have no less than 2 possibly 3 holes to fill, chancing 1 of those holes on a 2nd - 3rd day pick is too risky in my book, I really feel they can win with the current receiving corps which leads me to;

Consider the man Coaching this team, he's all about dominate the other guy at the LOS - Defensive line: Check
If they really want to be a ball control team (which we all know they do) then the logical pick is O Line, no risky trade downs, fix the part of your team that's holding you back. (I think Bradford will be okay, that said they will pick a QB within the 1st three picks imo)

Something tells me we're just going to have to agree to disagree:cheers:

Letting Langford go was a necessary evil.

They must have a plan, I think many here under rate his value, hopefully somebody in house is ready to fill that role.

 

[jrry32]

You must have missed the bolded part of my quote, hell even our current WRs & TE can be "good" weapons (Need someone to get them the ball (of course you know that)

Possibly. But it's certainly not going to hurt us to have a great weapon. You're not about to seriously argue that the 2013 Seahawks would have been a worse team with Calvin Johnson or Julio Jones.

I'm not 100% sure Scherff is their guy but...inferior? I guess time will tell on that one (hard to compare their relative value before they've played a down)

On my board, yes.

I have seen them, I would say then you better draft the very best O lineman should providence allow him to drop in your lap. (not talking about a project like Clemmings either, one's enough) a sure thing 10 year perennial pro-bowler. (easier said then done I know) In a perfect world we'd all love Cooper and knock it out of the park with a 2nd or 3rd round lineman, more on that in a moment.

That project would be the top OL I'd take. Can play OG as a rookie like Scherff or Collins but has much more potential on the edge.

I draft based on my board. Not going to deviate from that.

Not a fan of the FA thing tho I do agree if would behoove them to get the youngest non injury prone interior FA O lineman available. They have no less than 2 possibly 3 holes to fill, chancing 1 of those holes on a 2nd - 3rd day pick is too risky in my book, I really feel they can win with the current receiving corps which leads me to;

They can win with a lot of things. I want the best possible team.

I actually feel a bit differently right now. I'd like to see them go for a Rob Sims or Justin Blalock in FA. Both are steady, durable starters that can act as a bridge player for a rookie. And I would also be happy if they had a guy capable of starting at RT if needed coming out of FA. Regardless, I'm not opposed to a young OL but there's not a lot of those I like and the ones that I do will likely be expensive. Would rather us come away with two solid starters on the OL than one possibly good one. Especially when I think the best solution for the future is through the draft.

But, I also don't want us to have to be forced to play rookies from Day 1. Would be nice to have flexibility.

Consider the man Coaching this team, he's all about dominate the other guy at the LOS - Defensive line: Check
If they really want to be a ball control team (which we all know they do) then the logical pick is O Line, no risky trade downs, fix the part of your team that's holding you back. (I think Bradford will be okay, that said they will pick a QB within the 1st three picks imo)

I don't feel like that's how they want to do it. I think, as they've proven the last few years, they're willing to take risks. Because playing it safe doesn't guarantee anything either. I believe in trusting myself. Not going to pick OL because it's the "logical" move. Not going to avoid trade downs because they're risky. And I'm not going to take a QB because I feel I have to.

I'm going to trust my board and make the moves I feel will best help this team based on my opinion of each individual player. Maybe what I do will be the wrong decision but that's certainly not what I'm thinking ahead of time.

Something tells me we're just going to have to agree to disagree:cheers:

You're right about that because I just can't agree that the only choice is to draft an OL in Round 1. I think there are many directions this team can go and there isn't a single correct one. There are many correct ones. I'll tell you right now, though...the only two guys that I'd take over Amari Cooper are Mariota and Winston. So if he's on the board at #10, I'm taking him without thinking twice. Don't care if we can win with our WRs. Don't care if we need help on the OL. I'm taking that kid...because he's an amazing football player. The same reason the Rams took Aaron Donald last year over bigger needs. Same goes for Kevin White.

In fact, if I were to rank them in order, it would be:
Tier 1
1. Jameis Winston QB Florida State
2. Marcus Mariota QB Oregon
3. Amari Cooper WR Alabama
4. Kevin White WR West Virginia
Tier 2
5. T.J. Clemmings OG/OT Pittsburgh
6. Brandon Scherff OG Iowa
7. Leonard Williams DT USC
8. DeVante Parker WR Louisville
9. La'el Collins OG/OT LSU
10. Andrus Peat OT Stanford

BTW, if the Rams come into the draft with nothing at the RT spot, Peat would move up my board. I split them into tiers because I'd strongly consider a solid trade down offer after all my tier 1 guys were gone. For my tier 1 guys, there's zero chance I'm trading down...except if someone blows my socks off with Cooper or White(would not trade Winston or Mariota for anything except a franchise QB)...and by blows my socks off, I mean an insanely good offer.(like multiple firsts plus more picks)

 

[Boston Ram]

There is no way I do this deal. First off you can't trade away elite talent for a 2nd rounder only. Also you probably are not only trading away from White but you there is a very real possibility that you lose out on Scherff and Collins and Flowers.

Reward is not worth the risk IMO. I would need a first in 2016 also

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

You're right about that because I just can't agree that the only choice is to draft an OL in Round 1. I think there are many directions this team can go and there isn't a single correct one. There are many correct ones. I'll tell you right now, though...the only two guys that I'd take over Amari Cooper are Mariota and Winston. So if he's on the board at #10, I'm taking him without thinking twice. Don't care if we can win with our WRs. Don't care if we need help on the OL. I'm taking that kid...because he's an amazing football player. The same reason the Rams took Aaron Donald last year over bigger needs. Same goes for Kevin White.

Just a final word,

Hard to argue with that logic, Fisher is coming up on his 4th year, "Shirley" he realizes he needs a winning season, lotta rotten luck following this team the last two years.

Although any other year I'd be completely on board with the BPA thing, I really feel the state of the O Line just can't be minimized any longer, they need a fix and they need it immediately, trust me I'd love to see an amazing talent like Cooper wearing the Horns, I just feel at the moment they have way bigger fish to fry. (they need a push up the middle)

Now about Clemmings... tho the upside is there, not liking his relative inexperience, especially considering that (what I perceive) we pretty much drafted a clone last year who still has a long, long way to go, you can possibly get by with one, I think you're pushing it with two. Talk about boom or bust, I'd like to see more of a savvy technician with brute skill on the interior.

 

[Athos]

To compare, Tavon netted a 2nd.

White and Cooper are at least twice the WR prospect Tavon is.

 

[NERamsFan]

I take the deal. Personally, I'm not too sold on White although his combine was indeed impressive.

I use that 1st and draft future pro bowler Erving at center and forget about that position for the next 10 years. And with the second we can take our future qb and use the other on BPA ala Dawson.

 

[WestCoastRam]

I don't know that you pass on a guy like White regardless of what we have at WR. That being said, all the speculation is fun, but I don't know that we'll have the best sense at what we can or want to do at 10 till after FA and see if we do address WR (Britt) and OL (FA guard or Center).

 

[Rams43]

First 9 picks could go a lot of ways with probably about 14 potential candidates to be taken in the top 9. For this scenario the draft goes:

1. Tampa Bay - QB Winston
2. Tenn - DT Williams
3. Jax - Edge rusher Fowler
4. Oakland - WR Cooper
5. Washington - DT Shelton
6. NY Jets - QB Mariota
7. Chicago - Edge rusher Gregory
8. Atlanta - Edge rusher Ray
9. NY Giants - DT Brown
10. Phone rings. KC calling. Offers #18 and #49 for our #10. Pretty obvious they want WR Kevin White. Do you take it?

First, welcome aboard, Stel. I'm SO glad to see your fine posts on this board. What took you so long? Lol.

As to your question, I don't believe there is a clear "right" or "wrong" answer here. It's that close for me, anyway.

On the one hand, White just might become an elite player. Hard to pass on those types, indeed.

But the trade down would likely give us 2 starters for the next 10 years at positions of current screaming need. I don't consider WR to be a screaming need at this time.

For those reasons, I narrowly lean towards taking the trade down. But, man, it's REAL close for me.

Nice post, Stel. Keep 'em coming.

 

[bwdenverram]

Good post Stel. I think that would be a a really hard decision to be honest. I probably wouldn't trade but passing on our greatest need (OL) would be a hard decision if you have someone like White sitting there.

Glad I'm not GM.

 

[Memento]

With White and Peat still on the board? There had better be three future firsts included in that deal if I'm going to trade down.

 

[DR RAM]

There is no way I do this deal. First off you can't trade away elite talent for a 2nd rounder only. Also you probably are not only trading away from White but you there is a very real possibility that you lose out on Scherff and Collins and Flowers.

Reward is not worth the risk IMO. I would need a first in 2016 also

That's great, but it won't happen. You won't get a 2 1st's and a 2nd for trading down 8 spots for a WR. It would be a more likely scenario, if one of the QB's is still there, and that's probably equally as unfeasible as White being there at #10.

For conversation sake, and assuming the OP's ? did happen. You are saying you would do it, if they threw in a future 1st?

For those saying quality over quantity, and those saying you can't pass up on a prospect like White. I say, there is a lot of quality in the 2nd round, and a lot still at #18, and there will be the same kind of quality as White, possibly, at #10, even if White is picked.

This is a quality draft at the top. This top 10 is very good, however you mock it.

Is Kevin White a future, can't miss All Pro? He might be. I am one who truly believes we need to fix our OL this year. I am not one, who thinks it will take a 1st rounder, maybe at a reach, to do it. I would love to have an Amari Cooper, or Kevin White on this team...a true potential #1. Another thing that I would do in this draft, is trade future picks to get better this year, if the prospects were worth it.

Tough year to be our GM. If I couldn't move down and get value, I'd have to pick the best prospect at #10. Don't reach, that is what gets teams in trouble.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

To compare, Tavon netted a 2nd.

White and Cooper are at least twice the WR prospect Tavon is.

Ouch...the pesky truth

 

[Athos]

That's great, but it won't happen. You won't get a 2 1st's and a 2nd for trading down 8 spots for a WR. It would be a more likely scenario, if one of the QB's is still there, and that's probably equally as unfeasible as White being there at #10.

K. White Julio'd this combine. You start with the deal ATL made and go from there.

To move up 21 spots for an elite WR, ATL gave up their 1st, 2nd, and 4th in that year, and their 1st and 4th the following year.

Subtract half of 21 spots, and you fiddle with #s, you get 8 spots. So, about half what ATL netted, is the starting point for a team desperate for a WR.

And with KC desperate for a WR who can actually get into the EZ, the Rams would hold all the cards. Hence, a 2nd is a terrible trade off.

 

[Stel]

To compare, Tavon netted a 2nd.

White and Cooper are at least twice the WR prospect Tavon is.

Actually, the trade was to move up from #16 to #8. Buffalo got #16, #46, #78, and #22 and the Rams got #8 and #71. The fact that Austin was the Rams' target had nothing to do with the value of the trade. Buffalo didn't care who we were moving up to pick, they only cared what picks they received in return. Teams will act the same this year.

 

[Boston Ram]

That's great, but it won't happen. You won't get a 2 1st's and a 2nd for trading down 8 spots for a WR. It would be a more likely scenario, if one of the QB's is still there, and that's probably equally as unfeasible as White being there at #10.

For conversation sake, and assuming the OP's ? did happen. You are saying you would do it, if they threw in a future 1st?

For those saying quality over quantity, and those saying you can't pass up on a prospect like White. I say, there is a lot of quality in the 2nd round, and a lot still at #18, and there will be the same kind of quality as White, possibly, at #10, even if White is picked.

This is a quality draft at the top. This top 10 is very good, however you mock it.

Is Kevin White a future, can't miss All Pro? He might be. I am one who truly believes we need to fix our OL this year. I am not one, who thinks it will take a 1st rounder, maybe at a reach, to do it. I would love to have an Amari Cooper, or Kevin White on this team...a true potential #1. Another thing that I would do in this draft, is trade future picks to get better this year, if the prospects were worth it.

Tough year to be our GM. If I couldn't move down and get value, I'd have to pick the best prospect at #10. Don't reach, that is what gets teams in trouble.

Hey Dr, my main point is Im not moving down 8 spots for basically an extra 2nd. But if KC for example threw in another 1st rounder next year (which like you I find highly unlikely) I would make that trade.

My biggest detractor in moving to 18 is I may walk away with nobody I like there. Ultimately I am looking oline and that would be my focus but at 18 who are you looking at? Scherff and La'el Collins are probably gone and Flowers and Clemmings could be gone then also. I don't think Peat is a good fit since his best spot is probably LT and at that he is a Nate Solder type of player. Good not great.

Moving to 18 takes us out of what we need IMO. I don't see any value in losing trading away from those 4 players to gain a 2nd. Also if any of them are left we are getting the last of the litter. To me I would be happy to get Scherff or Collins but Im not willing to roll the dice in a trade down to gain an extra 2nd.

As for the OP's point of getting White, I do think there is too much upside with him to pass on him. Also if Cooper is there I grab Cooper without blinking. I like him better than White but would take either. I do think there is good G depth in this draft and think you can find good value in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

Main reasons I don't want to trade back. If one of the WR's are there, I like them both. Ultimately I think the best fit player wise for the Rams in the Top 15 is Scherff. To me he makes a ton of sense and basically trading him for a 2nd rounder doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

Hope Im not all over the road here lol.

 

[FrankenRam]

...

- Britt, Quick, Bailey, and Austin have ability if used correctly. We aren't hurting as bad in the WR department as we are in the line department.
....

That is true *IF* Britt is re-signed and Quick's shoulder heals w/o turning into silly putty. Neither of those are a given at this point.

*IF* Britt isn't re-signed and Quick's shoulder doesn't allow him to return in the form he seemed to be developing prior to his injury last year, then WR becomes a glaring need, IMO. What are the probabilities of either/both being the case.....I dunno. But I think it would be dangerous to site here in early March and assume that neither will just to justify drafting an OL first.

 

[DR RAM]

Hey Dr, my main point is Im not moving down 8 spots for basically an extra 2nd. But if KC for example threw in another 1st rounder next year (which like you I find highly unlikely) I would make that trade.

My biggest detractor in moving to 18 is I may walk away with nobody I like there. Ultimately I am looking oline and that would be my focus but at 18 who are you looking at? Scherff and La'el Collins are probably gone and Flowers and Clemmings could be gone then also. I don't think Peat is a good fit since his best spot is probably LT and at that he is a Nate Solder type of player. Good not great.

Moving to 18 takes us out of what we need IMO. I don't see any value in losing trading away from those 4 players to gain a 2nd. Also if any of them are left we are getting the last of the litter. To me I would be happy to get Scherff or Collins but Im not willing to roll the dice in a trade down to gain an extra 2nd.

As for the OP's point of getting White, I do think there is too much upside with him to pass on him. Also if Cooper is there I grab Cooper without blinking. I like him better than White but would take either. I do think there is good G depth in this draft and think you can find good value in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

Main reasons I don't want to trade back. If one of the WR's are there, I like them both. Ultimately I think the best fit player wise for the Rams in the Top 15 is Scherff. To me he makes a ton of sense and basically trading him for a 2nd rounder doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

Hope Im not all over the road here lol.

I understand, at #18 there is a real chance of losing out on a premier player. I too think Cooper or White could be too good to pass up, free agency could change some minds in a lot of regards.

@Athos, I understand what you guys are saying, but realistically he's gone anyway. I'd still try to get better this year. What Atlanta did was hugely different, and compensation to move as far as they needed to, cost them the rest of their draft. Value of players positions and rounds decrease dramatically the further you go down. Future picks are devalued also. One more factor to consider, teams that trade up usually lose out in the process, it rarely works for them if you give up unfair value. Didn't really help Washington, or Atlanta for that matter. GM's take recent history, and trends into consideration.

This is just hypothetical.