Family move. Advice needed!

[LesBaker]

Is it sexy to say you're from Omaha? No. But it's full of awesome friendly people, the economy is great, and the weather is not that bad.

Peyton Manning loves you guys.

 

[bnw]

I don't know about the VA here, but we moved to Omaha, NE 8 years ago (to the day!).

We had originally planned for this to be a 3 year temporary move (for grad school), but we're still here because it's just an awesome city.

Our two previous homes were Dallas and Phoenix, and imo Omaha provides a much better quality of life.

Is it sexy to say you're from Omaha? No. But it's full of awesome friendly people, the economy is great, and the weather is not that bad.

Happy to answer Q's if you have any--good luck!

Reminds me of Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom. Say hi to Uncle Warren.

 

[Mackeyser]

Lol, thanks all for the exceptional input!

Firstly, while this summer heat is kicking my ass, I can't do the super dry which is why Nevada and AZ and other dry states are off the list.

Seriously, finding a new place to live is like me buying shoes because my feet are such a difficult fit (super high arches). My wife won't even go shoe shopping with me anymore after the last time we went together... 3 hours and still couldn't find a single shoe and I'm not picky about colors or style. Just fit.

Same with these cities.

We're going to be going on a preliminary scouting trip to Minny in either mid-September or early October.

Even since I first posted, the excitement all seems to be there.

As for energy costs, I have a 3600 sq ft home and I just paid a $512 electric bill. My mom paid something like $160, so with all under the same roof, I'm pretty sure that our combined gas/electric bill shouldn't top $700

You're right, Les, about Pittsburgh.

My daughter lived with her boyfriend (not the one coming. That guy wasn't cool in the end) through a Rochester, NY winter and she's right that while she was okay with the snow levels, not all of our crew could handle it. It's pretty much why none of the northern cities east of the Great Lakes were considered. And New England close to the Boston VA tends to be really, really expensive. Plus, there's no way I'd survive Boston fans.... they'd kill me for sure because I wouldn't be able to shut up about how they went from loveable losers to Massholes...or how Brady is a cheater and Belichick is an even bigger cheat. Yeah, that'd get ugly in a hurry. I mean the Pats versus Aliens? I'mma have to go with the Aliens...

I honestly wish Denver could at least be a consideration, but the more I look at actual reviews from Vets and talk to vets who've been there and been treated there versus reviews based more on metrics like Joint Commission accreditations, the more I keep hearing that Denver is just...awful. Not even mediocre, but awful.

Considering we're melding households and everyone has various levels of veto, states like Nebraska, Ohio, and Iowa were vetoed by others even before we got started looking. We let the vetoes stand without contestation in order to make sure wherever we end up is a place everyone WANTS to be. Sorta like me vetoing the Boston area.

We're going to have to go all in on this move, so I'm not dragging anyone by the hair. They can stay in FL or find a new place over us dragging anyone anywhere.

As for Minny, I've been reading a LOT about "Minnesota Nice". It's a real thing there, like hotdish (seems to be a creamy shepherds pie, except with tater tots as the crust instead of mashed potatoes). Rubs some people the wrong way, but as Les can tell you, it's right up my alley.

It's a heavily Lutheran state (turns out my great grandparents on my mom's side were from Winnebago, MN) which works for us because we've been looking for a new church home. None of the churches here in our area click with us (some don't even serve coffee!!! How is it possible to worship without COFFEE!!!). Seems that newcomers are expected to put out the effort to meet people (totally not a problem with my motley crew) and it takes about a year supposedly to start to get in with people. But once you're in, it's almost like a nice mob. You're IN and in for life. That's how we tend to make friends, naturally, and all of us want deeper friendships than we've been able to make in FL which is a more transitory state. MN customs seem they create a cultural anchor for the community. For some that's good. For those with wanderlust, it's not so good.

It's safe to say my entire family is anchor people.

If the trip goes great, we'll probably go forward with plans to move there.

If the trip is just meh...or worse, then we'll have to revisit some of the vetoes and see if we can't make some compromises.

But this heat? I'm done. My hands are literally shaking from only being outside long enough to brush the pool, clean the filter and add chlorine and I'm drenched in sweat.

My only concern, personally, is that I damaged my hands in 15-degree weather in PA (had to ride my bike home from work and forgot my jacket and gloves. I wasn't too bad up top because I had on a long-sleeved shirt, but my hands. To this day, I struggle to even mix the meat for meatloaf because it hurts (I dunno what level of frostbite or whatever I got, but I can't barehand snow. Don't intend to, but it's something to be conscious of).

Beyond that, it's a matter of being a good homeowner in a cold climate. I hear wood stoves are a thing. Supposedly the new ones are wicked efficient. One has to be careful of skylights and solariums because of the weight of the snow.

I noticed lots of houses have decks. That seems like a lot of maintenance. I've never owned a deck.

Also, if I can choose, cement or blacktop driveway. Seems to me like blacktop would require tons more maintenance, but I could be totally wrong. Couple of places looked really nice, but we'd have to add a driveway as it's grass/dirt (the more exurb/rural places)

I probably have a decent grasp on living in the cold (the coldest of Minny cold, no idea, but I have been through a winter where every day was below freezing. Not a lot of snow, but cold every day and, yeah, that required a lot of adjustment with babies). It's been 12 years since I've experienced any kind of winter, so I'm probably just more anxious than I need to be, but I'd rather be overly cautious, especially for the move and first year than being caught unprepared.

I'm picking up things like always have a shovel, salt and a couple of blankets in your trunk. Handwarmers are a thing. There's apparently a big difference between snow boots and hiking boots. I get it now that I've seen them and compared them, but that was news to me.

Things like that.

As for a question my oldest son asked, "Does that mean you're going to become a Viking fan?"

Well, since my mom was at this family meeting, so all I could blurt out and be respectful was a very loud, "HELL NO!"

I think you all know what my real response was...

 

[Memento]

Good luck with your scouting, Mac! Here's hoping that wherever you end up is a happy, healthy home for y'all.

 

[LesBaker]

Mac if snow is an issue you may want to reconsider Minny. They average 55 inches and to give you a comparison Cleveland gets 61.

For what it's worth Rochester and central New York get shit tons of snow. So you won't see that in Minny but they get their share!

 

[DCH]

Mac if snow is an issue you may want to reconsider Minny. They average 55 inches and to give you a comparison Cleveland gets 61.

For what it's worth Rochester and central New York get crap tons of snow. So you won't see that in Minny but they get their share!

And Boston gets 43...

 

[DCH]

Lol, thanks all for the exceptional input!

Firstly, while this summer heat is kicking my ass, I can't do the super dry which is why Nevada and AZ and other dry states are off the list.

Seriously, finding a new place to live is like me buying shoes because my feet are such a difficult fit (super high arches). My wife won't even go shoe shopping with me anymore after the last time we went together... 3 hours and still couldn't find a single shoe and I'm not picky about colors or style. Just fit.

Same with these cities.

We're going to be going on a preliminary scouting trip to Minny in either mid-September or early October.

Even since I first posted, the excitement all seems to be there.

As for energy costs, I have a 3600 sq ft home and I just paid a $512 electric bill. My mom paid something like $160, so with all under the same roof, I'm pretty sure that our combined gas/electric bill shouldn't top $700

You're right, Les, about Pittsburgh.

My daughter lived with her boyfriend (not the one coming. That guy wasn't cool in the end) through a Rochester, NY winter and she's right that while she was okay with the snow levels, not all of our crew could handle it. It's pretty much why none of the northern cities east of the Great Lakes were considered. And New England close to the Boston VA tends to be really, really expensive. Plus, there's no way I'd survive Boston fans.... they'd kill me for sure because I wouldn't be able to shut up about how they went from loveable losers to Massholes...or how Brady is a cheater and Belichick is an even bigger cheat. Yeah, that'd get ugly in a hurry. I mean the Pats versus Aliens? I'mma have to go with the Aliens...

I mean, you don't have to walk around screaming "FUCK THE PATRIOTS," you can just, like, live here like a normal human being. It is expensive as hell... I think we're 3rd behind NYC and San Fran on the expensive places to live in the US list. But as @LesBaker points out, Boston gets less snow - and less average snowy days per year - than Minnesota, by a fairly wide margin.

Also, make sure you're ready for really, really bitter cold in Minnesota... average winter temperature is 12.4.

Twelve.

Point four.

Coldest state in the contiguous US, makes Maine seem like sunny beach weather by comparison.

 

[Mackeyser]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vjB3wiZKAA

Not one "dontchya know". Missed opportunity...lol

 

[Mackeyser]

I mean, you don't have to walk around screaming "freak THE PATRIOTS," you can just, like, live here like a normal human being. It is expensive as hell... I think we're 3rd behind NYC and San Fran on the expensive places to live in the US list. But as @LesBaker points out, Boston gets less snow - and less average snowy days per year - than Minnesota, by a fairly wide margin.

Also, make sure you're ready for really, really bitter cold in Minnesota... average winter temperature is 12.4.

Twelve.

Point four.

Coldest state in the contiguous US, makes Maine seem like sunny beach weather by comparison.

I walk around saying "freak the Patriots" NOW. Never need a reason. Just blurt it out sometimes. Football Tourette's, I think.

Yeah, Boston are is way too expensive.

Think 55" of snow should be manageable. The 300" or some such nonsense that hit Buffalo one year? Yeah, not so much.

We'll make sure to take a second trip in February if we like it to make sure. Not gonna just take it for granted.

 

[DCH]

I walk around saying "freak the Patriots" NOW. Never need a reason. Just blurt it out sometimes. Football Tourette's, I think.

Yeah, Boston are is way too expensive.

Think 55" of snow should be manageable. The 300" or some such nonsense that hit Buffalo one year? Yeah, not so much.

We'll make sure to take a second trip in February if we like it to make sure. Not gonna just take it for granted.

It gets cold like that here every now and again, and it hurts to breathe. Can't imagine living somewhere where that's the average.

 

[bnw]

This reminds me of a movie in which Renee Zellweger moved from Miami to MN.

View: https://youtu.be/k6yfJKPZQJU

 

[bnw]

Lol, thanks all for the exceptional input!

Firstly, while this summer heat is kicking my ass, I can't do the super dry which is why Nevada and AZ and other dry states are off the list.

Seriously, finding a new place to live is like me buying shoes because my feet are such a difficult fit (super high arches). My wife won't even go shoe shopping with me anymore after the last time we went together... 3 hours and still couldn't find a single shoe and I'm not picky about colors or style. Just fit.

Same with these cities.

We're going to be going on a preliminary scouting trip to Minny in either mid-September or early October.

Even since I first posted, the excitement all seems to be there.

As for energy costs, I have a 3600 sq ft home and I just paid a $512 electric bill. My mom paid something like $160, so with all under the same roof, I'm pretty sure that our combined gas/electric bill shouldn't top $700

You're right, Les, about Pittsburgh.

My daughter lived with her boyfriend (not the one coming. That guy wasn't cool in the end) through a Rochester, NY winter and she's right that while she was okay with the snow levels, not all of our crew could handle it. It's pretty much why none of the northern cities east of the Great Lakes were considered. And New England close to the Boston VA tends to be really, really expensive. Plus, there's no way I'd survive Boston fans.... they'd kill me for sure because I wouldn't be able to shut up about how they went from loveable losers to Massholes...or how Brady is a cheater and Belichick is an even bigger cheat. Yeah, that'd get ugly in a hurry. I mean the Pats versus Aliens? I'mma have to go with the Aliens...

I honestly wish Denver could at least be a consideration, but the more I look at actual reviews from Vets and talk to vets who've been there and been treated there versus reviews based more on metrics like Joint Commission accreditations, the more I keep hearing that Denver is just...awful. Not even mediocre, but awful.

Considering we're melding households and everyone has various levels of veto, states like Nebraska, Ohio, and Iowa were vetoed by others even before we got started looking. We let the vetoes stand without contestation in order to make sure wherever we end up is a place everyone WANTS to be. Sorta like me vetoing the Boston area.

We're going to have to go all in on this move, so I'm not dragging anyone by the hair. They can stay in FL or find a new place over us dragging anyone anywhere.

As for Minny, I've been reading a LOT about "Minnesota Nice". It's a real thing there, like hotdish (seems to be a creamy shepherds pie, except with tater tots as the crust instead of mashed potatoes). Rubs some people the wrong way, but as Les can tell you, it's right up my alley.

It's a heavily Lutheran state (turns out my great grandparents on my mom's side were from Winnebago, MN) which works for us because we've been looking for a new church home. None of the churches here in our area click with us (some don't even serve coffee!!! How is it possible to worship without COFFEE!!!). Seems that newcomers are expected to put out the effort to meet people (totally not a problem with my motley crew) and it takes about a year supposedly to start to get in with people. But once you're in, it's almost like a nice mob. You're IN and in for life. That's how we tend to make friends, naturally, and all of us want deeper friendships than we've been able to make in FL which is a more transitory state. MN customs seem they create a cultural anchor for the community. For some that's good. For those with wanderlust, it's not so good.

It's safe to say my entire family is anchor people.

If the trip goes great, we'll probably go forward with plans to move there.

If the trip is just meh...or worse, then we'll have to revisit some of the vetoes and see if we can't make some compromises.

But this heat? I'm done. My hands are literally shaking from only being outside long enough to brush the pool, clean the filter and add chlorine and I'm drenched in sweat.

My only concern, personally, is that I damaged my hands in 15-degree weather in PA (had to ride my bike home from work and forgot my jacket and gloves. I wasn't too bad up top because I had on a long-sleeved shirt, but my hands. To this day, I struggle to even mix the meat for meatloaf because it hurts (I dunno what level of frostbite or whatever I got, but I can't barehand snow. Don't intend to, but it's something to be conscious of).

Beyond that, it's a matter of being a good homeowner in a cold climate. I hear wood stoves are a thing. Supposedly the new ones are wicked efficient. One has to be careful of skylights and solariums because of the weight of the snow.

I noticed lots of houses have decks. That seems like a lot of maintenance. I've never owned a deck.

Also, if I can choose, cement or blacktop driveway. Seems to me like blacktop would require tons more maintenance, but I could be totally wrong. Couple of places looked really nice, but we'd have to add a driveway as it's grass/dirt (the more exurb/rural places)

I probably have a decent grasp on living in the cold (the coldest of Minny cold, no idea, but I have been through a winter where every day was below freezing. Not a lot of snow, but cold every day and, yeah, that required a lot of adjustment with babies). It's been 12 years since I've experienced any kind of winter, so I'm probably just more anxious than I need to be, but I'd rather be overly cautious, especially for the move and first year than being caught unprepared.

I'm picking up things like always have a shovel, salt and a couple of blankets in your trunk. Handwarmers are a thing. There's apparently a big difference between snow boots and hiking boots. I get it now that I've seen them and compared them, but that was news to me.

Things like that.

As for a question my oldest son asked, "Does that mean you're going to become a Viking fan?"

Well, since my mom was at this family meeting, so all I could blurt out and be respectful was a very loud, "HELL NO!"

I think you all know what my real response was...

A few comments:

The variables are many between homes and energy efficiency but it looks like it won't be $700 to heat your home in MN.....though who knows what that means? An indoor temp of 62 degrees or the 72 in my home? This thread might interest you:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/minneapolis-st-paul/734757-heating-costs-what-do-you-pay.html

If you are having trouble with your hands mixing meatloaf then I would stay away from wood heat as it is labor (hands in particular) intensive. You should look into something like pellets or corn stoves that are worm fed to reduce the handling involved in heating.

Blacktop is fine and cheaper though it must be sealed every so often. In TN we can go a few years inbetween sealing with no problem since freeze/thaw is not much to worry about. It can be kind of slick when freshly sealed and on a grade.....but if relatively flat no problem. Good thing about it in cold weather is that the sunlight will heat it up fast drying after rain and melting snow and ice fairly quick well into the 20s.

Concrete is good too but more expensive. However in a very cold climate you have to have someone who knows what they're doing when pouring one since the site prep is most important as is the mix. Be very careful as to the ice melting media used since the temps generated can spall the concrete easily and it will degrade forever since the protective top was damaged. If you maintain it correctly a concrete drive gives great traction and is practically worry free.

Gravel is fine too. Much much cheaper and you can do it yourself. Super easy to maintain. Salt it, throw gasoline on it.......doesn't matter.......its still the same gravel. Dark gravel is better because it will melt snow and ice faster. Only issue might be the spread of gravel but landscape borders can easily keep the gravel bound. Also the gravel should be large enough that it won't get caught in the tire tread. Also the spot where the driveway meets the road might have to be swept once in a while though with proper design you can eliminate that too.

I used to work in a huge freezer that was 0 degrees at its warmest and -20 at its coldest. Hours at a time. I've been grateful to not have to experience the St. Louis winter since moving to East TN. As easy as the winters are here (and many people from up north retire here) I can't wait to move to FL when we can. I wish you luck.

 

[BonifayRam]

You know where I am at Mack just NW of you about 5 hrs. I understand much of what you have said. We live up on a high hill in NW Fl.

We travel a ton... we have been looking for a 2nd residence in NE TN. Here's my top suggestions to take a look @ ...
Sheridan, in Sheridan County, Wyoming
Kalispell a city in northwest Montana
Fort Collins is a city in northern Colorado
Laramie is a city and the county seat of Albany County, Wyoming
Mountain City is a town in Johnson County, Tennessee
Whitefish is a resort town in the Rocky Mountains of northwest Montana
Port Townsend is a city in Jefferson County, Washington
Elkins is a city in Randolph County, West Virginia
Vancouver is a city on the north bank of the Columbia River in the U.S. State of Washington

I love the state of Oregon but way too much Gov, interference in daily life for us.

 

[nighttrain]

I know there are folks from all over, so any advice is greatly appreciated.

stay connected, with internet Ram fans can live anywhere
train

 

[Mackeyser]

A few comments:

The variables are many between homes and energy efficiency but it looks like it won't be $700 to heat your home in MN.....though who knows what that means? An indoor temp of 62 degrees or the 72 in my home? This thread might interest you:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/minneapolis-st-paul/734757-heating-costs-what-do-you-pay.html

If you are having trouble with your hands mixing meatloaf then I would stay away from wood heat as it is labor (hands in particular) intensive. You should look into something like pellets or corn stoves that are worm fed to reduce the handling involved in heating.

Blacktop is fine and cheaper though it must be sealed every so often. In TN we can go a few years inbetween sealing with no problem since freeze/thaw is not much to worry about. It can be kind of slick when freshly sealed and on a grade.....but if relatively flat no problem. Good thing about it in cold weather is that the sunlight will heat it up fast drying after rain and melting snow and ice fairly quick well into the 20s.

Concrete is good too but more expensive. However in a very cold climate you have to have someone who knows what they're doing when pouring one since the site prep is most important as is the mix. Be very careful as to the ice melting media used since the temps generated can spall the concrete easily and it will degrade forever since the protective top was damaged. If you maintain it correctly a concrete drive gives great traction and is practically worry free.

Gravel is fine too. Much much cheaper and you can do it yourself. Super easy to maintain. Salt it, throw gasoline on it.......doesn't matter.......its still the same gravel. Dark gravel is better because it will melt snow and ice faster. Only issue might be the spread of gravel but landscape borders can easily keep the gravel bound. Also the gravel should be large enough that it won't get caught in the tire tread. Also the spot where the driveway meets the road might have to be swept once in a while though with proper design you can eliminate that too.

I used to work in a huge freezer that was 0 degrees at its warmest and -20 at its coldest. Hours at a time. I've been grateful to not have to experience the St. Louis winter since moving to East TN. As easy as the winters are here (and many people from up north retire here) I can't wait to move to FL when we can. I wish you luck.

Well, the transition to Florida can be daunting. Insurance rates here are capricious and don't seem to have any logic and we're one hurricane away from another MASSIVE insurance crisis. They don't redline like in CA, but it's strange. Plus, for car insurance, they have this thing called "stacking" where you can stack the coverages. It's hard to explain and I don't think they do it anywhere else.

Florida drivers are the WORST in the US and among the worst in the world outside of India (where road signs and traffic lights are light suggestions). The tailgating is a REAL problem and with the exploding population there's now becoming more and more issues with flooding since the natural means of water dissipation are all being paved over.

And then there's snow birds, those that come down for the winter. They can turn an otherwise quiet town into congestion central. They tend to be elderly, so everything is off from commute times to how long a retail interaction takes (even things like getting gas). It's NOT a small thing. Some get really angry with snow birds. My family tends to just do our best to adjust, but knowing is very important. Certain business also try to charge snow birds and visitors more. I found out that some of the really nice seafood restaurants at the beach if you mention that you're a local will charge you less, sometimes a LOT less.

The bugs are a thing here. There are ghost ants which are everywhere. Every home has them and they're pervasive. There's also "No-see-ums" which are sometimes confused with sand fleas which fill some beaches. Their bite is like a red ant in that each one creates a pustule that you cannot break or it will be 10x worse. I got over 100 of them one day when my son was getting some pictures taken for school and I was on max doses of benedryl for like 3 days. And the cockroaches are serious concern in the same way that a deranged MMA fighter is serious concern. They're no joke.

The humidity is only really a problem (and I have asthma) in July and August. Other than that, the weather is pretty nice and I gotta admit when you look at the weather forecast and it's 80 degrees in Miami and Tampa and it's -10 in the North, just walking around in flip flops and shorts is nice. For some, that's the deal. I'm over it, but it is nice. For 8 months a year, it's about 90 degrees and 80+% humidity,

I find the people to be very nice. That said, it's hard to connect with people in that they're only here for the summer or this is just one of several moves that are job related before it's time to retire. I don't know many retirees, so I can't speak to that.

Lastly, it's an inverted state. The farther north in FL you go, the more "southern" it is. The farther south you go, the more "northern" it is.

Florida is a weird state. Like any place, it's got good and bad, but it's like an American evaluating a British car. The parts are all there, but it's aligned differently and some things don't make any sense unless you've grown up British.

 

[Mackeyser]

This reminds me of a movie in which Renee Zellweger moved from Miami to MN.

View: https://youtu.be/k6yfJKPZQJU

"Are you a scrapper?"

"Oh, here comes the boss lady..."

My family LOVES this movie. I actually wanted to find New Ulm on the map (It's in south west MN). We quote from it all the time.

Turns out that Wabasha, MN has a Grumpy/Grumpier Old Men Festival.

We're SOOOO going to that...

 

[bnw]

"Are you a scrapper?"

"Oh, here comes the boss lady..."

My family LOVES this movie. I actually wanted to find New Ulm on the map (It's in south west MN). We quote from it all the time.

Turns out that Wabasha, MN has a Grumpy/Grumpier Old Men Festival.

We're SOOOO going to that...

Grumpier old men is one of my favorites. Do you like tapioca pudding?

 

[Mackeyser]

Grumpier old men is one of my favorites. Do you like tapioca pudding?

LMAO!!! My family just gave me a huge bunch of crap about how much I love tapioca and how I'd have to make friends so I could get some home made, but then they'd have to ration it because I'd eat it all at once!

I mean if we can find a good church home with great coffee, someone who makes too much tapioca who needs people to take some off their hands and a house and a neighborhood that fit our needs, I'll be in seventh heaven. I don't need much...

Both movies, imho, are just fantastic. And the Burgess Meredith outtakes are just...well, I'm rolling every time I see them. Never gets old.

Btw, I love your sig. That commercial was so pretentious and obnoxious that I had to laugh. Dude's passion is untucked shirts??? A person would have to be Derek Zoolander to me more vacuous.

 

[bnw]

LMAO!!! My family just gave me a huge bunch of crap about how much I love tapioca and how I'd have to make friends so I could get some home made, but then they'd have to ration it because I'd eat it all at once!

I mean if we can find a good church home with great coffee, someone who makes too much tapioca who needs people to take some off their hands and a house and a neighborhood that fit our needs, I'll be in seventh heaven. I don't need much...

Both movies, imho, are just fantastic. And the Burgess Meredith outtakes are just...well, I'm rolling every time I see them. Never gets old.

Btw, I love your sig. That commercial was so pretentious and obnoxious that I had to laugh. Dude's passion is untucked shirts??? A person would have to be Derek Zoolander to me more vacuous.

Burgess Meredith nailed that role. When he breaks them up fighting.....too funny. Thanks about the sig, I couldn't believe the first time and my wife and I were laughing too hard to really pay attention.....but there's so much to laugh about I was saddened to see they replaced it with other commercials that don't equate the shirts inventor with Jonas Salk or Louis Pasteur. First World Problems!

View: https://youtu.be/vN2WzQzxuoA

 

[RedRam]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vjB3wiZKAA

:rolllaugh::rolllaugh: Fargo was the first thing that went through my head when reading the OP!

The second thought was TV snow...