Do you trust Fisher/Snead to draft our QB of the future?

  • To unlock all of features of Rams On Demand please take a brief moment to register. Registering is not only quick and easy, it also allows you access to additional features such as live chat, private messaging, and a host of other apps exclusive to Rams On Demand.

GabesHorn

GRACE AND TRUTH
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
1,125
i haven't followed much of college this year. but he needs to be mobile that's for sure. not a scrambling idiot but mobile. I hear there's a kid out of BYU maybe

Just for your Drafting 2016 help it will be Memphis where we got Issac Bruce or California or Michigan State as thats the top rated 3 QB's with 1st round grades. Penn State has a second rounder that the HC of the Texans coached to his last Good season. So watch these schools in the bowl games if they make one.
 

thirteen28

I like pizza.
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jan 15, 2013
Messages
8,324
Name
Erik
This is the way I see it as well.

Noted above is how well they have drafted defensive talent, but the funny thing is look at a guy like Alexander... He is the defensive equivalent of Quick in that he's got outstanding talent but was extraordinarily raw coming out. After being coached up, the dude is lookin pretty darn good. If he was a WR, I'm sure by now he'd be a good special teams player who still can't run a route correctly, or have any idea what a defense is trying to do.

Fact is the coaching on the defensive side of the ball is top-notch. And Fish got there by firing the guys who weren't good enough until he brought the guy in he wanted originally. Good thing too. Williams is proven, and one of the best at what he does.

But what does Fish do on offense? Bring in a coach's kid who couldn't put up a good offense in NY. Now, that's all well and good provided you are willing to cut bait but I'm not sure Fish would have cut bait if Schotty hadn't taken that Georgia job, in which, incidentally, the offense looked terrible and the head coach was fired. Then he hires Cigs, which was very risky for him and his job security.

Thing is that I really love Jeff Fisher as our head coach. I think he's a good head coach. But in order to succeed he needs to hire an OC who can put his offense on the map. I swear man that if he had managed to get Greg Roman in here this offense would at least be solid and this team would resemble Minnesota instead of the same old Rams. Coordinators are crucial, particularly for that other side of the ball for the mortal head coaches not named Belichick.

So for me it's bittersweet if Fish gets fired. I wanted so badly to see him succeed but I just cannot stomach any more terrible offense. The dude needs to raise the bar and I'm afraid he just doesn't know how. I'm terrified he's gonna find some sorry, run-centric dude to coordinate this offense and it will be more of the same. Or he'll just keep Cigs and this staff in place in spite of the fact that their inability to field a strong offense has put him on the hotseat. It's a bad deal all the way around man with no relief in sight...

This, 1000 times.

He just doesn't seem to get it on the offensive side of the ball, or is unwilling to bring in an OC and give him the control he needs. He made a bad hire with Schottenheimer (who had UGA fans up in arms for much of the season for many of the same reasons we did and just got his HC fired). And it so far doesn't look like Cigs is a great hire ... unless Fisher won't let him do what he needs to do.

I give him plenty of slack on the OL, it's not his fault he doesn't have magic injury prevention fairy dust to sprinkle on our OL (and at least all of our draft picks are getting actual game experience!). But the fact is, our passing offense has been atrocious almost the entire year, well before the rash of injuries started. Players look worse than they ever have. Brian Quick, after looking like a breakout player for the first six games last year, has almost disappeared. Nick Foles looks worse than he ever has as a professional. He may not be as good as he looked a couple of years ago in Philly, but it's hard for me to believe he's really as bad as he's looked here. They have spent much of the year refusing to attack the middle of the field. And on and on and on.

Couple the above with the fact that none of Fisher's teams have ever had a really good offense, and it's hard not to believe that the problem doesn't start at the top. Unless Fish is willing to change his approach to offense, I don't think things will ever get appreciably better here.

Oh, and on a side note, leave Snead out of it. Les has done a great job in my opinion, and he got more draft capital on the RG3 trade than most people predicted. He played his hand perfectly. And he got Philly to give up a 2nd rounder in the Bradford trade, a second rounder that is looking better all the time, while Philly got a player that, while talented, is often hurt and could walk at the end of the season. Whether Fish stays or goes, I hope they keep Les.
 

Memphis Ram

Legend
Joined
Jun 26, 2010
Messages
6,668
Gee. IMO, there isn't a QB in this upcoming draft class worthy of a top 5 - 10 selection.

Of course, I'm not a fan of selecting underclassmen coming from spread offenses that high in the draft given the rarity of success guys like that have had in the past.
 

Merlin

Enjoying the ride
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
May 8, 2014
Messages
37,036
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #45
Gee. IMO, there isn't a QB in this upcoming draft class worthy of a top 5 - 10 selection.

Of course, I'm not a fan of selecting underclassmen coming from spread offenses that high in the draft given the rarity of success guys like that have had in the past.

I'll refer you to another Cal QB who they said the same thing about: Aaron Rogers, who went in the 20s to Green Bay due to the offense he played in. Funny thing is this kid Goff is very similar and has been playing behind a less than stellar line.

This crop is actually pretty good man. Goff is legit, albeit a bit skinny. Cook is a 5th year senior in a ball control offense that elected to stay to get a championship and who has a legit NFL skill set. Lynch is compared a lot to Bortles, but in my estimation has a similar skill set to Kaepernick but a more accurate passer.

There's gonna be 2 QBs in that range, maybe 3 depending on how froggy teams get to move up. Supply and demand brother.
 

Killgasm

Starter
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Messages
688
Name
Alex
Snead and fisher always draft for the future, but when will the future get here!!!??
 

Debacled

Starter
Joined
Jun 19, 2014
Messages
571
Still not sure where people get the idea that the game has passed Fisher by and he is just ignorant to how the game is played today....the dude is only 57 its not like he is some old school hard ball stuck in his ways kinda coach. He sits on the competition committee and you could argue he is better versed in the rules than pretty much any of the refs. He helps write the rules and people think he just doesn't get it? The play calls are there, the players are not executing. It is utterly PAINFUL to watch the QB play for this team.

What were they supposed to do at QB? Nobody expected Bradford to go down with a 2nd ACL tear, at that point he still had 2 years on his contract. He was the reason Fisher came here, its not like they would use a high pick on another QB when the roster still had so many holes. QBs don't pop up in FA pretty much at all; the good ones don't anyways.

Do I trust them to "develop" a QB? You better believe I do. You have to remember though no player is a guarantee. You would be hard pressed to find many other coaching staffs out there with the amount of experience that this team does. Not every player can be coached up to be good enough. If it were that easy there wouldn't be so many QB needy teams. Its VERY difficult to find "the guy" in the draft or otherwise. Made it a point in another thread to step back and have people look at how hard it really is to not only find the right guy for the job but also to be in the correct position to get said guy. Teams spend YEARS waiting for essentially the perfect storm. Mannion may be that guy, but he won't be as a rookie. Hell even Tom Brady didn't look like the ice cold killer he is now until at least half a decade into his career.
 

DenverRam

Starter
Joined
May 3, 2015
Messages
849
I always kind of viewed Fisher as the guy who had a great defensive mind.

But was always bailed out by scrambling Qbs because they would always create when his lack of offense on every team he coaches breaks down. I mean look where he had success. Mcnair. Who made ridicioulous scrambles, to keep the play always alive. You could say Vince Young did that for a time as well.

I would love for Fisher to bring in someone like Martz for O coordinator and pay him like a head coach.
 

RaminExile

Hall of Fame
Joined
Sep 29, 2013
Messages
3,065
I trust Snead more than Fisher for some reason. I actually thin both of them are good talent evaluators. The problem has been coaching I think. Our guys aren't developing right. I'm more doubtful of coach Sherman and coach Boudreau and of the fact Fisher doesn't have a track record of good quarterbacks suggesting to some people he doesn't put much of a premium on the position - I kind of disagree with that assessment. He's not an idiot. I think it's just that good passers are hard to come by. He wants us to just be competent at QB, not all world.
 

ProGen

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
1,623
Drafting our QB of the future and having the ability to build AND run an offense are very different beasts. I have zero confidence a Fisher led team can have an above average offense, let alone an offense needed to win the Superbowl.
 

-X-

Medium-sized Lebowski
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Messages
35,576
Name
The Dude
Probably not much. It might make a difference defensively; but again, probably not by much.
 

blue4

Hall of Fame
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
3,126
Name
blue4
No I don't. I think they made the best of a bad situation by getting Foles and ditching Bradford's salary. There also hasn't been a QB prospect lately that I've wanted to draft with the exception of Carr. Nick Foles I don't really blame on the coaching staff, he was pretty average in Philly. I knew going in he wasn't the answer but I hoped he'd be at least in the 20-25 range in rankings. But his abysmal track record at drafting and developing WR and OL gives me little hope he'd know who to draft or what to do with a good QB prospect. I'd assume he'd go for a guy like CK, all talent with no brains or experience running a actual offense. That's what he's done with his top offensive picks. He's gotten guys who look good in the weight room and in practice, but have no idea what they are doing.
 

Ballhawk

Please don't confuse my experience for pessimism!
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
2,239
Name
NPW
I always kind of viewed Fisher as the guy who had a great defensive mind.

But was always bailed out by scrambling Qbs because they would always create when his lack of offense on every team he coaches breaks down. I mean look where he had success. Mcnair. Who made ridicioulous scrambles, to keep the play always alive. You could say Vince Young did that for a time as well.

I would love for Fisher to bring in someone like Martz for O coordinator and pay him like a head coach.
Our current players are not capable of grasping a Martz offense. They are athletes not thinkers.
 

FRO

Legend
Joined
Jun 1, 2013
Messages
5,308
I trust Snead - Fisher, not so much.
Why doesn't Snead receive any blame for not fixing this offense? When Fisher and Snead took over the line sucked and the receivers sucked. Tavon Austin is a nice playmaker, but he isn't a great receiver. We have no good receivers. We passed on some great ones in 2014. As far as offensive line we really didn't invest until 2014. I don't call day 3 picks really investing due to high bust rate. We tried getting older patchwork guys with our offensive line. I wish they would have approached the offensive line like they did the defensive line. To me Snead is as much to blame as Fisher. He is the GM.
 

FRO

Legend
Joined
Jun 1, 2013
Messages
5,308
Brian Quick was a Les Snead pick which is highlighted in this article:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000...-snead-leans-on-strengths-to-rebuild-st-louis

Also in the 2012 draft after Blackmon their top 2 WR targets were Brian Quick and AJ Jenkins. Blackmon had top tier talent, the other two are major busts.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--r...following-secret-trip-to-north-carolina-.html

In reading these past draft articles I have little faith that Fisher and Snead can build an offense. They rely too heavily on workouts, draft raw upside players who are all or nothing types. They also didn't seem to know what type of offense they wanted to be. They thought they would draft playmakers and figure it out. It failed.
 

Memphis Ram

Legend
Joined
Jun 26, 2010
Messages
6,668
I'll refer you to another Cal QB who they said the same thing about: Aaron Rogers, who went in the 20s to Green Bay due to the offense he played in. Funny thing is this kid Goff is very similar and has been playing behind a less than stellar line.

This crop is actually pretty good man. Goff is legit, albeit a bit skinny. Cook is a 5th year senior in a ball control offense that elected to stay to get a championship and who has a legit NFL skill set. Lynch is compared a lot to Bortles, but in my estimation has a similar skill set to Kaepernick but a more accurate passer.

There's gonna be 2 QBs in that range, maybe 3 depending on how froggy teams get to move up. Supply and demand brother.

The Cal offense inflates his production and he won't have Brett Farve to sit behind and learn for 3-4 seasons to adjust to the NFL game. Cook is a 5th year senior who is already very inconsistent and has yet to complete 60% of his passes in any season. Shoot, I watched his team beat the National Champions Ohio State without him. Lynch is a one year wonder in another form of the spread offense. They may all have the physical skills to play the position, but that can be said of many guys. I'd hope the Rams wouldn't be the guinea pigs and use a high first rounder on any of them from what I've seen.
 

Mojo Ram

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Messages
22,897
Name
mojo
Why doesn't Snead receive any blame for not fixing this offense? When Fisher and Snead took over the line sucked and the receivers sucked. Tavon Austin is a nice playmaker, but he isn't a great receiver. We have no good receivers. We passed on some great ones in 2014. As far as offensive line we really didn't invest until 2014. I don't call day 3 picks really investing due to high bust rate. We tried getting older patchwork guys with our offensive line. I wish they would have approached the offensive line like they did the defensive line. To me Snead is as much to blame as Fisher. He is the GM.
I completely agree in terms of the WR position, but the OLine was strongly addressed in FA. Long, Wells, Saffold. It didn't work out, but there was no reason to be spending draft choices on the line when there were so many other positions that needed addressed.
 

FRO

Legend
Joined
Jun 1, 2013
Messages
5,308
I completely agree in terms of the WR position, but the OLine was strongly addressed in FA. Long, Wells, Saffold. It didn't work out, but there was no reason to be spending draft choices on the line when there were so many other positions that needed addressed.
In 2012 we had Quinn Ojinakka and Rob Turner competing for the LG spot. In 2013 it was Shelley Smith and Chris Williams. Add onto the fact Wells and Dahl were getting long in the tooth and Jason Smith looked like a bust and you could have easily went with offensive line in each of those drafts.
 

-X-

Medium-sized Lebowski
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Messages
35,576
Name
The Dude
Brian Quick was a Les Snead pick which is highlighted in this article:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000...-snead-leans-on-strengths-to-rebuild-st-louis

Also in the 2012 draft after Blackmon their top 2 WR targets were Brian Quick and AJ Jenkins. Blackmon had top tier talent, the other two are major busts.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--r...following-secret-trip-to-north-carolina-.html

In reading these past draft articles I have little faith that Fisher and Snead can build an offense. They rely too heavily on workouts, draft raw upside players who are all or nothing types. They also didn't seem to know what type of offense they wanted to be. They thought they would draft playmakers and figure it out. It failed.
Meh. Still hindsight. You can't KNOW whether or not a player will be able to adapt to the NFL until you put him in the NFL. Quick had/has exceptional athleticism and a prototypical WR build. How could they not have been excited by the prospects of putting him on the field? And that second article reinforces what I believed to be the case (at the time) when Fisher "slammed his glasses on the table" after Jax moved up to take Blackmon. He was upset because the trade value for Blackmon was huge, and the trade value for everyone else below him (including Claiborne) was lower. They just wanted the most value at their slot. They didn't care that they couldn't draft him.

I can't blame them for taking as many players as they could (whether 'NFL-ready' or 'potential') after the purge of the 2011 team. People can claim that they knew what was the right decision at the time, but they didn't. They can claim that they knew so-and-so would be a great NFL talent, but they didn't. Blackmon didn't pan out. Claiborne isn't a world beater. Who knows what would have happened if Quick didn't get injured. What if they did take Wagner and he got badly hurt HERE? Whether people like it or not, they put a premium on athletic ability and roll the dice on whether or not they'll be able to "get it" instead of putting a premium on being NFL ready and rolling the dice on whether or not they'll turn out to be playmakers.

Can't change that unless you get a whole new staff.