Defense takes a step back

[Dxmissile]

Honestly I don't think the defense had a bad day at all. Some of the calls were questionable but they played well enough for us to win even after the refs screwed us over. We should have won the game despite everything but Schotty continues to confound me every time we get in the redzone to win a game

 

[Thordaddy]

That's it in a nutshell. There was a thread last week that talked about the improvement in the defense. I posted the biggest improvement was in the tackling. Any scheme will look bad when they miss tackles. As well as they have played lately, Sunday was an example of poor tackling and it then makes it look like the scheme somehow is at fault.

Make the tackles at the point of attack, and we win that game. Ryan Matthews shredded them all day. And the long TD run after catch by Allen was more about missing tackles than it was about the scheme.

I can't say they didn't tackle poorly because I haven't seen the game ,but I agree that most of the improvement over the previous defensive efforts was in that we were tackling MUCH better , I also think Ogletree not having to "spy" on Manning was key as well .

From the analysis I've heard , Quinn was much less a factor against Rivers as well, if we are going to be a dominant defense until Long is back Quinn has to dominate......................and the officiating needs to be as vigilant about calling holding as it is on the ticky tack calls that only effect the game because they WERE CALLED.

 

[CoachO]

I can't say they didn't tackle poorly because I haven't seen the game ,but I agree that most of the improvement over the previous defensive efforts was in that we were tackling MUCH better , I also think Ogletree not having to "spy" on Manning was key as well .

From the analysis I've heard , Quinn was much less a factor against Rivers as well, if we are going to be a dominant defense until Long is back Quinn has to dominate......................and the officiating needs to be as vigilant about calling holding as it is on the ticky tack calls that only effect the game because they WERE CALLED.

The SD game plan was what took Quinn out of the game. They threw screens in his directions, and don't recall even a 5 step drop by Rivers all day.

 

[Thordaddy]

The SD game plan was what took Quinn out of the game. They threw screens in his directions, and don't recall even a 5 step drop by Rivers all day.

So you're agreeing C Long being back could well have tipped the scales?

 

[BuZzB29]

Defense line need learning how push forward or pass on them then sack on qb.

 

[BuZzB29]

Quinn need get gains his weight and need push forward and pass it on them.

 

[CoachO]

So you're agreeing C Long being back could well have tipped the scales?

Not saying it would have at all. I am saying the game plan obviously was to protect and injured Rivers, and get the ball out of his hands before the pass rush could be a factor. Be it Quinn or Long, it wasn't going to make a difference.

 

[OnceARam]

Saying that the players didn't execute is a completely facile statement to me in that context. Exactly which plays that didn't work couldn't you say that about? While I agree with the other points you made I can't go along with this at all. Whether the play call was good or not the players still have to execute. Proper execution has absolutely nothing to do with whether it was the proper percentage play to call or not.

You're not the only one who says stuff like that but I chose you to make my reply because you used all CAPS and thus stood among the crowd. Let's not confuse the success of a play with whether it was the right play to call and yes, I realize that for some, if it was successful it was ipso facto the correct play to call. It wasn't the percentage play to call and that's what most people mean when they're talking about the "correct play."

I'm not saying that wasn't the right or wrong play to call, I'm just saying that proper execution has nothing to do with that question.

So you're saying that play that ended our hopes of victory was a well designed play? Forget situation for a second. Just the play design.

 

[Alan]

OnceARam with a Q:
So you're saying that play that ended our hopes of victory was a well designed play? Forget situation for a second. Just the play design.

I thought the play was really stupid but that's not the point of my rant. My point was about conflating execution (of a good or a bad play) with play calling. Had the execution of that play been perfect the play calling would still have been bad. Had they scored it would have been in spite of the bad play he called. Was it the worst play he could have called? No but it wasn't the best play he could have called that's for sure. I'd stake my many years as an OC on that.

 

[drasconis]

That's it in a nutshell. There was a thread last week that talked about the improvement in the defense. I posted the biggest improvement was in the tackling. Any scheme will look bad when they miss tackles. As well as they have played lately, Sunday was an example of poor tackling and it then makes it look like the scheme somehow is at fault.

Make the tackles at the point of attack, and we win that game. Ryan Matthews shredded them all day. And the long TD run after catch by Allen was more about missing tackles than it was about the scheme.

absolutely correct ++++1

Even the big forced fumble by Allen was filled with it. He caugt the ball at about the 40 on the far side of the field and wasn't brought down (where the fumble occurred) until the 15 of the near side of the field. He broke through at least 4 tackles while covering probably 50 real yards. That just can't happen.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

Alan putting me in my place yet again

Saying that the players didn't execute is a completely facile statement to me in that context. Exactly which plays that didn't work couldn't you say that about? While I agree with the other points you made I can't go along with this at all. Whether the play call was good or not the players still have to execute. Proper execution has absolutely nothing to do with whether it was the proper percentage play to call or not.

You're not the only one who says stuff like that but I chose you to make my reply because you used all CAPS and thus stood among the crowd. Let's not confuse the success of a play with whether it was the right play to call and yes, I realize that for some, if it was successful it was ipso facto the correct play to call. It wasn't the percentage play to call and that's what most people mean when they're talking about the "correct play."

I'm not saying that wasn't the right or wrong play to call, I'm just saying that proper execution has nothing to do with that question.

'Proper execution has absolutely nothing to do with whether it was the proper percentage play to call or not.'

What? Proper execution makes any play the "proper percentage play"---------- "everyone knows that"


"Let's not confuse the success of a play with whether it was the right play to call and yes, I realize that for some, if it was successful it was ipso facto the correct play to call."

Uh...can you please dumb that down for me

 

[Alan]

OC--LeftCoastHaving trouble understanding my post:
What? Proper execution makes any play the "proper percentage play"---------- "everyone knows that"

You asked me, facetiously I'm sure , to "dumb it down" for you so I'm going to use a preposterous example so that my point will be clearer. I hope.

You have the ball 1st and goal at their 15 yard line with 9 seconds left in the game and you have no time outs left. You call for a QB sneak off the left shoulder of the center but your center fails to move his man (or has a brain fart and clears out a hole to his right instead) and the hole isn't there. The QB is stopped for a loss of one yard, time runs out and you lose the game.

The play was not executed correctly and theoretically had the center moved his guy and created the designed hole off his left shoulder and everyone down field made good blocks and the QB took advantage of those down field blocks he could have eventually scored a TD.

So the play wasn't executed correctly but was that why they didn't score or was it because the chances of everything working out perfectly were so small on a QB sneak that it wasn't the "proper percentage play" to call? Even had the play been executed perfectly the chances for success (scoring a TD and not just opening a hole for the QB to gain a few yards) were tiny. Would a play calling for a pass to the end zone been a play with a "higher percentage for success" (as in scoring a TD) been a better call?

All plays to be successful must be executed properly (barring a great individual play by a player who improvises when the called play isn't working) for it to be a success. So how do you measure whether a play is a good play to call or a bad one? Barring trick plays like fake punts or that great individual improvised play I mentioned, I would posit that a bad play call is one that has a low chance of success/higher chance of catastrophic failure and a good call is one that has a higher chance of success or less chance for catastrophic failure (INT) or both. Execution is not the issue since most any play executed perfectly will do the job.

I could go into much greater detail but I'm hoping that this will clear up any confusion as to my meaning.

Finally, everyone doesn't know that because it's a facile explanation and thus ultimately wrong. IMO of course.

fac·ile
ˈfasəl/
adjective

1. 1. (especially of a theory or argument) appearing neat and comprehensive only by ignoring the true complexities of an issue; superficial.

 

[Alan]

One final thought on this @OC--LeftCoast . You seem and I could be reading you wrong, to be upset about my response to your original post. As I said in my first reply, I only picked your post to make my point about this issue because you used all CAPS and that galvanized me to overcome my laziness and finally comment on this issue after reading so many other posters and writers say the same thing. At no time did I mean to imply anything that could be misconstrued as a dig on you. If my wording gave you that impression then I apologize for that. Sometimes, for various reasons, my ability to make my posts say exactly what I mean leaves something to be desired.

I could have just said this:
Execution is very often the determining factor for whether a play is successful or not but it's not and never will be, the determining factor for whether it was the correct play to call at that time and in that situation whether the play was successful or not. But that's in hindsight. Plus that's too short and I like to hear myself write.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

Nah Alan, not upset at all, I like you and was just foolin' with ya. (I suck at that, btw)

"Everyone know that" was just my weak effort referring to that Insurance commercial, it was intended as facetious. (was hoping you'd come back with a "yeah but did you know...)

We may differ on certain opinions but c'est la vie, that's what makes ROD a good forum.

 

[Alan]

OC--LeftCoast praising the ROD:
Nah Alan, not upset at all, I like you and was just foolin' with ya. (I suck at that, btw)

We may differ on certain opinions but c'est la vie, that's what makes ROD a good forum.

First of all, your response caught me at a bad time. I had just recently woken up from a good night's sleep, had three cups of coffee and had all my wits about me. I catch things much better at night when I'm half witted.

Also, you're right, that's one of the things that makes the ROD so good.

 

[Mojo Ram]

The defense turned the corner weeks ago. Overall that unit played solid yesterday. Getting points, forcing turnovers, getting sacks, getting off the field...Rivers played well and there were a few breakdowns sure, but thats how it works. In the end the D made the plays it needed to in order to give the offense the opportunities to win the game. This is a good defense now. Rarely do even elite defenses play 60 minutes of football and not give up plays.
The Rams D will get scored on in the future. They'll miss another coverage, they'll get gashed on a run play, our guys aren't going to textbook tackle every single time from here on out...thats reality. Prepare yourself.

Ok maybe not...