Cardale Jones

[DR RAM]

I just watched 4 games with him, 3 from this year, and 1 from last year. Last year, I watched everything available on him. He seems like a real wildcard to me, and depending on how he does on the white board during the combine, a real interesting prospect.

He makes some wow throws, both ways, but lower body mechanics is the thing with him. It comes up in every game that I watch. He also lost a little quickness, and speed from last year, IMO. Conditioning, or an injury? He's still a tank, can throw with touch, can throw it 60 plus yards down the field.

Has all the tangibles. Uses head fakes, and pump fakes to move the safety. I saw him make a lot of good decisions, and I saw him make a few bad ones, but not an inordinate amount of bad decisions. The OL wasn't as good this year, pass protecting, for whatever reason. He lacked an honest deep threat, which I think hurt his game.

Hard to tell how many progressions he was asked to make, go through, but I noticed he had a lot of tree routes, where he could look in one direction, and read the safety based on how they covered the receivers out of their dual breaks.

When he breaks contain, he's dangerous, and does keep his eyes alive, even til the last second on a few plays that I saw. He sometimes throws off balance, and doesn't feel the backside rush, but on some of these plays, the rush got to him very quickly, so I don't think he has a broken clock.

He throws high on occasion, very high, but then he can bounce back and make an incredible seam throw, or perfect swing pass. he played some very good games on the biggest stage in college football, at a big time program, in a big time conference.

I'd love to hear from someone from Ohio St. who was closer to exactly what the deal was this year, or if anyone has heard anything concerning this year.

Right now, I see this guy from an early 2nd round, to a late 5th round pick, but my gut tells me that someone will fall in love with him, if his football IQ is anywhere near his talent level. The combine, will be huge for him.

Thoughts on the player, and not really on if we should take him, just what do you guys think of him? We haven't had much discussion about him this year.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

What I read/heard was he was unproductive in the red zone. Meyer tried to simplify things for overall but especially inside 20 yards... it didn't work. So, then he started to sub J.T. Barrett inside the red zone and the scoring went up. Barrett made it look so easy that he quickly replaced Jones altogether. If Jones cannot make his reads quickly, or struggles with the speed of the game when things tighten up, I'd wager that he won't work out as an NFL QB.

Despite Fishers reputation as an offensive genius and QB guru, I don't think Jones is a good option for the Rams, or anyone else for that matter.

 

[dieterbrock]

Its truly amazing how guys drop and don't drop. Jones was terrible this year and if not for 3 games last year, he's not even in consideration to be an UDFA

 

[jrry32]

He really struggled this year. Was absolutely terrible against Penn State. He's worth taking a chance on for a team that has an established starter and wants a guy to develop. But we don't have that luxury...unless we were to acquire a veteran starting QB.

 

[tahoe]

Way too raw and too much of a gamble for the rams to draft him

 

[LACHAMP46]

This guy needs Dallas, San Diego, Denver, NO, Pitt, or a team with an established starter. Let HIM sit for 3 or 4 years...We need a guy that can play ASAP.

 

[FrantikRam]

Physical tools are unbelievable.

His mechanics were not good, and I would be weary of any QB coming from this offense. People in Columbus all thought JT should have been the starter from the get go, but that Jones would get the nod because he is a year older.

I don't put much stock in trying to know how he reads the field....the offense they play in doesn't seem to make that a priority.

Having said that, Devin Smith was the primary reason for OSU's offense falling off. There was no consistent deep threat. On top of that, it seemed the entire team was playing with a malaise until we lost to MSU. Barrett did look better, but he looked better last year too - Barrett broke the record for TDs for a QB in the big 10 while missing half of the last game and not playing in any bowl game. He would have finished the year - easily - with more TDs than Mariota had.

The potential you saw in Jones last year is what he is capable of. This year, while immensely talented, this OSU team seemed to just not play with an edge - even when we were blowing teams out, often times it wasn't pretty.

Not a good fit for the Rams because of our QB situation.

 

[DR RAM]

Almost every response relates to us, but I was wondering what people thought went wrong, and what area do you guys think he'll go in the draft? Thanks for your thoughtful response. I think I see him about the same as you.

Physical tools are unbelievable.

His mechanics were not good, and I would be weary of any QB coming from this offense. People in Columbus all thought JT should have been the starter from the get go, but that Jones would get the nod because he is a year older.

I don't put much stock in trying to know how he reads the field....the offense they play in doesn't seem to make that a priority.

Having said that, Devin Smith was the primary reason for OSU's offense falling off. There was no consistent deep threat. On top of that, it seemed the entire team was playing with a malaise until we lost to MSU. Barrett did look better, but he looked better last year too - Barrett broke the record for TDs for a QB in the big 10 while missing half of the last game and not playing in any bowl game. He would have finished the year - easily - with more TDs than Mariota had.

The potential you saw in Jones last year is what he is capable of. This year, while immensely talented, this OSU team seemed to just not play with an edge - even when we were blowing teams out, often times it wasn't pretty.

Not a good fit for the Rams because of our QB situation.

 

[FrantikRam]

Almost every response relates to us, but I was wondering what people thought went wrong, and what area do you guys think he'll go in the draft? Thanks for your thoughtful response. I think I see him about the same as you.

Late 2nd/early 3rd. Maybe 1st if Denver falls in love and decides not to re-sign Osweiler.

The primary reason for his drop off in production was losing Devin Smith IMO...no true deep threat ever emerged, and Jones' biggest strength was/is his deep accuracy.

 

[tahoe]

Late 2nd/early 3rd. Maybe 1st if Denver falls in love and decides not to re-sign Osweiler.

The primary reason for his drop off in production was losing Devin Smith IMO...no true deep threat ever emerged, and Jones' biggest strength was/is his deep accuracy.

no way anyone will draft him in the first, he will be lucky to be drafted on the third day

 

[12intheBox]

no way anyone will draft him in the first, he will be lucky to be drafted on the third day

This is the league that has seen first round flyers on Tebow, Janikowski, Matt Jones, and many others. It only takes one team - and while CJ is a far cry from Cam - there are GMs thinking about who the next Cam could be.

I think he is a day 2 pick - and closer to day 3 than he is day 1 - but I'll never say never.

 

[jrry32]

Almost every response relates to us, but I was wondering what people thought went wrong, and what area do you guys think he'll go in the draft? Thanks for your thoughtful response. I think I see him about the same as you.

I'd say Day 2 to early Day 3 on where he'll go.

What went wrong? System didn't fit his skill-set. Still struggled processing things quickly. And QB rotation didn't allow for him to develop rhythm and confidence.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Late 2nd/early 3rd. Maybe 1st if Denver falls in love and decides not to re-sign Osweiler.

The primary reason for his drop off in production was losing Devin Smith IMO...no true deep threat ever emerged, and Jones' biggest strength was/is his deep accuracy.

So, in other words he is very limited and relied heavily on a simplified game plan that didn't require him to make or throw reads on the underneath or intermediate stuff. Run, run ,run and when the defense cheats up burn them deep and use the cannon to get the ball to the open man downfield. No deep threat and he was nearly useless.

I don't buy that the team was listless most of the season either. They just weren't that good with a bad QB. Insert a guy that can lead and successfully QB and things changed pretty quick. They didn't look anything like the team that struggled to outscore Northern Illinois. Jones just isn't that good and he doesn't look like he could handle the NFL, not that that is a big deal since only about two or three college QBs each year ever succeed at all in the NFL.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I'd say Day 2 to early Day 3 on where he'll go.

What went wrong? System didn't fit his skill-set. Still struggled processing things quickly. And QB rotation didn't allow for him to develop rhythm and confidence.

Jones was the starter for over half the season. He got the chance to show them what he could do against the easy part of the schedule and it wasn't good.Meyer knew he had to make a change before the games against the Michigan teams.

 

[jrry32]

Jones was the starter for over half the season. He got the chance to show them what he could do against the easy part of the schedule and it wasn't good.Meyer knew he had to make a change before the games against the Michigan teams.

Being the starter doesn't mean much when you're constantly looking over your shoulder and having to rotate with your backup QB. Meyer played it poorly. He waited right up until the VT game to name a starting QB. In many of the games Jones started, Barrett came in and played at least a few snaps. And he was quick to pull Jones when he struggled.

He did the kid a disservice. Would Jones have performed better in different circumstances? Impossible to say with any certainty. But Meyer should have made him the unquestioned starter and thrown all his support behind him. On top of that, he should have tailored the system more to Jones's game and given him the first 4 or so games to show he was the guy without pulling him or rotating Barrett in (except for possibly an occasional trick play or run play).

The mental game is the most important part of QB success. Meyer's handling of the QB position last year was not conducive to his starting QB building confidence and having success. Even Barrett was FAR less effective in 2015.

 

[FrantikRam]

So, in other words he is very limited and relied heavily on a simplified game plan that didn't require him to make or throw reads on the underneath or intermediate stuff. Run, run ,run and when the defense cheats up burn them deep and use the cannon to get the ball to the open man downfield. No deep threat and he was nearly useless.

I don't buy that the team was listless most of the season either. They just weren't that good with a bad QB. Insert a guy that can lead and successfully QB and things changed pretty quick. They didn't look anything like the team that struggled to outscore Northern Illinois. Jones just isn't that good and he doesn't look like he could handle the NFL, not that that is a big deal since only about two or three college QBs each year ever succeed at all in the NFL.

You and I wouldn't know how limited he is - the passing game didn't change much between Miller/Barrett/Jones except that both Barrett and Jones are superior passers to Miller while Miller and Barrett are obviously superior runners. I would not take a QB from Ohio State because I believe they would be too much of a gamble.

I'm not saying Jones will or won't be a good NFL QB. He probably won't be. But he showed how well he is capable of playing last year. And yes, the entire team was listless for a large part of the season. This team was so good that they played with no spark and nearly went undefeated. The team that took apart Michigan and Notre Dame would have given Alabama and Clemson both a good game.

VT/Hawaii/Northern Illinois/Western Michigan - the only one of these games that OSU won by more than 30 was Hawaii, and we looked terrible on offense the whole game.

As Jrry pointed out, Jones was not the only QB in these games. And, Jones was actually undefeated in his college career. Barrett looked bad at times too, and that was a product of the WHOLE offense playing uninspired football. We had most of our OL back and yet the run blocking all year was far worse than last year.

Losing Tom Herman hurt more than people realize too. None of us know if Jones will be any good in the NFL, but looking at his performance this year and using it as an example for why he won't succeed is not smart IMO.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

You and I wouldn't know how limited he is - the passing game didn't change much between Miller/Barrett/Jones except that both Barrett and Jones are superior passers to Miller while Miller and Barrett are obviously superior runners. I would not take a QB from Ohio State because I believe they would be too much of a gamble.

I'm not saying Jones will or won't be a good NFL QB. He probably won't be. But he showed how well he is capable of playing last year. And yes, the entire team was listless for a large part of the season. This team was so good that they played with no spark and nearly went undefeated. The team that took apart Michigan and Notre Dame would have given Alabama and Clemson both a good game.

VT/Hawaii/Northern Illinois/Western Michigan - the only one of these games that OSU won by more than 30 was Hawaii, and we looked terrible on offense the whole game.

As Jrry pointed out, Jones was not the only QB in these games. And, Jones was actually undefeated in his college career. Barrett looked bad at times too, and that was a product of the WHOLE offense playing uninspired football. We had most of our OL back and yet the run blocking all year was far worse than last year.

Losing Tom Herman hurt more than people realize too. None of us know if Jones will be any good in the NFL, but looking at his performance this year and using it as an example for why he won't succeed is not smart IMO.

Or it is very smart because anyone using a 2nd or 3rd on this guy based on his college time is taking a big risk. Just on what I know about him and have seen I will bet he never starts a game in the NFL. Even Urban Meyer tried to give him his chance and he blew it. There is no way I would want the Rams to waste a pick on him. I don't think he think he has the quick decision making skills needed to QB in the NFL and I think it limits his ability to read the entire field on pass plays. He wasn't able to do those things successfully at OSU this year or he would have kept the starting job that was handed to him based on a few big games. I get everyone here loved him after the Championship run, but that was such a limited amount of time on a team that was totally clicking on all cylinders. Even Trent Dilfer won a Superbowl once. Even after last years impressive run, evaluators looking at his game said he was at best a third round pick. Right about where I would have put him. Now I think he is a UDFA.

 

[FrantikRam]

Or it is very smart because anyone using a 2nd or 3rd on this guy based on his college time is taking a big risk. Just on what I know about him and have seen I will bet he never starts a game in the NFL. Even Urban Meyer tried to give him his chance and he blew it. There is no way I would want the Rams to waste a pick on him. I don't think he think he has the quick decision making skills needed to QB in the NFL and I think it limits his ability to read the entire field on pass plays. He wasn't able to do those things successfully at OSU this year or he would have kept the starting job that was handed to him based on a few big games. I get everyone here loved him after the Championship run, but that was such a limited amount of time on a team that was totally clicking on all cylinders. Even Trent Dilfer won a Superbowl once. Even after last years impressive run, evaluators looking at his game said he was at best a third round pick. Right about where I would have put him. Now I think he is a UDFA.

If Sean Mannion was a 3rd round pick, Cardale Jones is probably a 3rd round pick. Your hatred for Ohio State blinds you.

He has attributes that most QBs don't have - that alone is worth a risk. Not for the Rams, but for another team.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

If Sean Mannion was a 3rd round pick, Cardale Jones is probably a 3rd round pick. Your hatred for Ohio State blinds you.

He has attributes that most QBs don't have - that alone is worth a risk. Not for the Rams, but for another team.

No. I do hate Ohio State but not enough to skew my evaluations on players at the next level. The NFL is when you turn the page. Otherwise I wouldn't have supported Laurinitis the last few years, until this one. I was excited about the potential of Christian Bryant too. And there are a few guys on that team this year that I really like a lot, especially the DBs, and would love to have them on the Rams. I watch enough of Ohio State games to see through the hype. Teams like OSU, and Notre Dame annually have good recruiting classes, good rosters, and success on the field. But their players often get overhyped because of the media attention and overexposure.

I really don't understand the love for Jones. There have been similar QBs fail in the NFL and he has proven less than they have. He has a big arm. So what. Jamarcus Russell had a big arm. First and foremost he has to have the mental acuity and the synapse to get the job done. I don't see where he has proven to do so. Maybe the trouble is not my hate for OhioState, but your love for it.

 

[FrantikRam]

No. I do hate Ohio State but not enough to skew my evaluations on players at the next level. The NFL is when you turn the page. Otherwise I wouldn't have supported Laurinitis the last few years, until this one. I was excited about the potential of Christian Bryant too. And there are a few guys on that team this year that I really like a lot, especially the DBs, and would love to have them on the Rams. I watch enough of Ohio State games to see through the hype. Teams like OSU, and Notre Dame annually have good recruiting classes, good rosters, and success on the field. But their players often get overhyped because of the media attention and overexposure.

I really don't understand the love for Jones. There have been similar QBs fail in the NFL and he has proven less than they have. He has a big arm. So what. Jamarcus Russell had a big arm. First and foremost he has to have the mental acuity and the synapse to get the job done. I don't see where he has proven to do so. Maybe the trouble is not my hate for OhioState, but your love for it.

The difference here is that you are saying a guy absolutely won't succeed, whereas I'm saying he'll probably be a 3rd round pick, with a chance to succeed depending on who drafts him.

If my love for Ohio State was blinding me, I'd say he should be a first round pick - which I don't believe. I think ultimately he'll be drafted in the 3rd round, and that feels right for him.

If the OSU fan is saying I don't know what's going to happen while the PSU fan is adamant that he'll fail, it's pretty clear that you're hatred is blinding you. I couldn't care less about players once they leave Ohio State. I realize that it's likely he'll fail. But based on what I've seen, he has a chance to succeed - that opinion is a level headed one....not one blinded by love.