Broken Tackles 2014: Defenses (very long)

[-X-]

Darian Stewart wasn't any better then McLeod is.

 

[LesBaker]

Alec Ogletree was also on that first table, but not highlighted.

4 Rams on that list allowing most broken tackles. :eek:

But it's a meaningless stat. Even the author says there is no corellation to the broken tackles stat and the quality or ranking of a defense.

This is a made up stat that has about zero value. And the 5 yard "dragdown tackle" thing is a joke. That's FIFTEEN fucking feet, go measure that off in your house and think about it. Who has a body on them and gets that far, most of the time another defender comes in to finish it off well before that could happen. I'd say 3 yards is the most.

Even then wrapping someone up and letting them get 6,7,8 or 9 more feet isn't great.

 

[CoachO]

I think if you look at this topic and put it in context you will find that while it's a charting of the entire season, most of the missed tackles by the Rams listed here came within the first 6 weeks of the season.

I said it last year at the time and still maintain the biggest single factor in the dramatic improvement in the defense over the second half of the season was in its tackling. There were far more fewer missed tackles and therefore the overall play and production of the defense was like night and day from earlier in the year.

That also seemed to correlate in how much better McLeod seemed to play as the season progressed. He stopped going for the kill shot as often and focussed on getting the guy to the ground.

 

[TheDYVKX]

Most of those missed and broken tackles came early in the season. McLeod and Ogletree, especially Ogletree, had a really sloppy start to the season. It got better as the season went on.

I'm not worried, unless we get off to another slow start overall.

 

[-X-]

I know it's a natural reaction for fans to look at write-ups and charts like this and toss it aside as being too subjective or compartmentalized, but think about the nature of statistical reporting 10 or so years ago. It was primitive compared to what sites like Football Outsiders, STATS LLC, and Pro Football Focus give us today.

While some of their findings can be argued to be subjective, I think they're doing a helluva job of charting things that we can at least talk about now. And if you *really* look into their methodologies, you'll see that they look at every player on every snap of every game and do a remarkable job of staying objective while staying true to their formulas. That's a lot of work. And the only way to REALLY dispute what they're saying is to chart every play of a particular player you feel is being unfairly represented. Unless you're willing to do that, I don't think there's any way you can discredit much of what they say.

 

[LesBaker]

I think if you look at this topic and put it in context you will find that while it's a charting of the entire season, most of the missed tackles by the Rams listed here came within the first 6 weeks of the season.

I said it last year at the time and still maintain the biggest single factor in the dramatic improvement in the defense over the second half of the season was in its tackling. There were far more fewer missed tackles and therefore the overall play and production of the defense was like night and day from earlier in the year.

That also seemed to correlate in how much better McLeod seemed to play as the season progressed. He stopped going for the kill shot as often and focussed on getting the guy to the ground.

Couldn't have said it better, the tackling was SO much better and came quicker. They really were getting in to the swing of the defense and getting to the ball quickly and ending the play. They also were getting to the QB of course but the point that they were making tackles was huge because that's the way to kill drives.

I was actually a bit worried early on that the previous season was a fluke and that the D was just average. A scary thing to think about.

 

[LesBaker]

I know it's a natural reaction for fans to look at write-ups and charts like this and toss it aside as being too subjective or compartmentalized, but think about the nature of statistical reporting 10 or so years ago. It was primitive compared to what sites like Football Outsiders, STATS LLC, and Pro Football Focus give us today.

While some of their findings can be argued to be subjective, I think they're doing a helluva job of charting things that we can at least talk about now. And if you *really* look into their methodologies, you'll see that they look at every player on every snap of every game and do a remarkable job of staying objective while staying true to their formulas. That's a lot of work. And the only way to REALLY dispute what they're saying is to chart every play of a particular player you feel is being unfairly represented. Unless you're willing to do that, I don't think there's any way you can discredit much of what they say.

Oh yeah, zat so? Watch this!

 

[CoachO]

I know it's a natural reaction for fans to look at write-ups and charts like this and toss it aside as being too subjective or compartmentalized, but think about the nature of statistical reporting 10 or so years ago. It was primitive compared to what sites like Football Outsiders, STATS LLC, and Pro Football Focus give us today.

While some of their findings can be argued to be subjective, I think they're doing a helluva job of charting things that we can at least talk about now. And if you *really* look into their methodologies, you'll see that they look at every player on every snap of every game and do a remarkable job of staying objective while staying true to their formulas. That's a lot of work. And the only way to REALLY dispute what they're saying is to chart every play of a particular player you feel is being unfairly represented. Unless you're willing to do that, I don't think there's any way you can discredit much of what they say.

I agree with this, and I was in no way trying to discredit the charts, or findings. In fact, I tend to agree with them, when looking at the season as a whole.

My only point, was that if you break these charts down even further, (game by game), I believe they will show that the team overall did a much better job of tackling as they got further into the season.

I also believe this is a by product of the new CBA, and is a league wide dilemma, not just Rams related. They just aren't able to do much in the way of contact during training camp anymore, and it carries over once the season starts.

 

[LesBaker]

I also believe this is a by product of the new CBA, and is a league wide dilemma, not just Rams related. They just aren't able to do much in the way of contact during training camp anymore, and it carries over once the season starts.

And it hasn't done much on the injury front. In fact I remember reading an article about serious injuries increasing.

 

[-X-]

I agree with this, and I was in no way trying to discredit the charts, or findings. In fact, I tend to agree with them, when looking at the season as a whole.

My only point, was that if you break these charts down even further, (game by game), I believe they will show that the team overall did a much better job of tackling as they got further into the season.

I also believe this is a by product of the new CBA, and is a league wide dilemma, not just Rams related. They just aren't able to do much in the way of contact during training camp anymore, and it carries over once the season starts.

Yeah. I wasn't singling you (or anyone else in particular) out there either. It was just a general observation from watching people across the internet unilaterally discredit sites like these because they don't like the results. It would be nice if they were able to take it a step further and break it down by halves of the season, because I believe you're right about the second half of the season being markedly better for the Rams in this regard. I'll bet that's a trend that's applicable to all teams that have young starters and/or new defenses. Shouldn't be that hard for them to do either. I mean, they have to be watching these games from the first one to the last.

 

[Alan]

LesBaker with this:
But it's a meaningless stat. Even the author says there is no corellation to the broken tackles stat and the quality or ranking of a defense.

Here's what PFF said in my post:
"Overall, 13 of the top 19 teams are from the AFC while 10 of the bottom 13 come from the NFC. Oddly enough, the eight teams right in the middle of the rankings are eight of the 12 playoff teams from this past year with little differentiation between them. While a team doesn’t need to be great in this category, it is hard to be successful when you’re one of the teams that misses the most tackles."

So yeah, there is a correlation in their minds when you're looking at the team as a whole. The sum is made up from all the parts so...

 

[ReddingRam]

I agree with this, and I was in no way trying to discredit the charts, or findings. In fact, I tend to agree with them, when looking at the season as a whole.

My only point, was that if you break these charts down even further, (game by game), I believe they will show that the team overall did a much better job of tackling as they got further into the season.

I also believe this is a by product of the new CBA, and is a league wide dilemma, not just Rams related. They just aren't able to do much in the way of contact during training camp anymore, and it carries over once the season starts.

True. The lack of proper technique for tackling .. especially open field tackles has degraded significantly. Add that to the desire to be on Sports Centers "Top 10 Hits" montage ... guys just don't make solid tackles much anymore. Too much "head down" ... "lead with the shoulder" stuff.

 

[Big Willie]

It just confirms what I thought about McLeod and Jenkins. They're more likely to go for the killshot than tackle, and when they have to wrap up, it doesn't turn out well. I'm a bit surprised that Gaines was that poor at tackling, but he was a rookie, and he actually tackled well at Mizzou. I expect him to improve. Ogletree is an enigma to me. Yeah, he misses his fair share of tackles, but he also makes his fair share as well.

McDonald and Laurinaitis don't surprise me either.

Just makes me want Joyner at that free safety spot even more.

As I watched the games it appeared to me that Gaines started missing tackles towards the end of the season. While I don't have numbers to back it up, I think his numbers were low early and high later. Perhaps it was just him hitting the rookie wall......JJ concerns me on every level because he can be a good tackler; he just seems to lack the "want to" sometimes. McLeod takes bad angles and just isn't that good, so he gets a pass from me.

 

[Robocop]

I think if you look at this topic and put it in context you will find that while it's a charting of the entire season, most of the missed tackles by the Rams listed here came within the first 6 weeks of the season.

I said it last year at the time and still maintain the biggest single factor in the dramatic improvement in the defense over the second half of the season was in its tackling. There were far more fewer missed tackles and therefore the overall play and production of the defense was like night and day from earlier in the year.

That also seemed to correlate in how much better McLeod seemed to play as the season progressed. He stopped going for the kill shot as often and focussed on getting the guy to the ground.

tell that to Emmanuel Sanders :seizure:
he's gotten better but his coverage skills still suck.

 

[FrantikRam]

I think there are other factors too.

For example, a defensive player is more likely to miss a tackle on a quick screen to a WR than a dig route where the WR gets a 20 yard reception. And we all know that teams MO was to get rid of the ball against this defense. missed tackles aren't good, but I do think that makes a difference.

 

[Rmfnlt]

I know it's a natural reaction for fans to look at write-ups and charts like this and toss it aside as being too subjective or compartmentalized, but think about the nature of statistical reporting 10 or so years ago. It was primitive compared to what sites like Football Outsiders, STATS LLC, and Pro Football Focus give us today.

While some of their findings can be argued to be subjective, I think they're doing a helluva job of charting things that we can at least talk about now. And if you *really* look into their methodologies, you'll see that they look at every player on every snap of every game and do a remarkable job of staying objective while staying true to their formulas. That's a lot of work. And the only way to REALLY dispute what they're saying is to chart every play of a particular player you feel is being unfairly represented. Unless you're willing to do that, I don't think there's any way you can discredit much of what they say.

As long as the stats show the Rams in a good light, I believe they are absolutely accurate.

However, in the event they do not show the Rams in a good light? Hogwash and they are a bunch of quacks!!

 

[LACHAMP46]

If only he was a FS type.

He is Alan....once he learns the pro-game he'll be a huge upgrade over what we have used..Probably our best FS since Atogwhe (?)

Would you bring Stewart back, given a chance to!?

hmmm, naw always injured...But I'll have fond memories of that hit on the Cards RB...Williams I believe.

McLeod takes bad angles and just isn't that good, so he gets a pass from me.

???? But curious why he gets a pass?
Worse starting defensive player we have...Because his role in a defense is huge...Literally loses games all by himself.

 

[-X-]

hmmm, naw always injured...But I'll have fond memories of that hit on the Cards RB...Williams I believe.

Everyone remembers that one.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU8r0mzEhuo

 

[12intheBox]

I like the definition they used for broken tackles - seems fair enough. Still has some tinges of subjectivity to it - but impossible not to, really.

 

[Big Willie]

He is Alan....once he learns the pro-game he'll be a huge upgrade over what we have used..Probably our best FS since Atogwhe (?)

hmmm, naw always injured...But I'll have fond memories of that hit on the Cards RB...Williams I believe.

???? But curious why he gets a pass?
Worse starting defensive player we have...Because his role in a defense is huge...Literally loses games all by himself.

He gets a pass because he is not that talented ...in an NFL sense. It's not his fault the Rams haven't found someone better. I take simpathy on guys who try hard, but can't excel because of lack of talent. Guys with immense talent (Ogletree, Jenkins, etc.) who underperform, get no breaks.