Bradford, at Right Cost, Would Benefit Rams in 2015/Stalter

  • To unlock all of features of Rams On Demand please take a brief moment to register. Registering is not only quick and easy, it also allows you access to additional features such as live chat, private messaging, and a host of other apps exclusive to Rams On Demand.

RamBill

Legend
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
8,874
Bradford, at Right Cost, Would Benefit Rams in 2015
By Anthony Stalter

http://www.101sports.com/2014/12/17/bradford-right-cost-benefit-rams-2015/

There was a moment in last Thursday’s 12-6 loss to the Cardinals that further stressed the Rams’ need to find better, more consistent production at the quarterback position.

Faced with a third-and-four from Arizona’s 44-yard line with just under two minutes remaining in the fourth quarter, the Rams came out in a spread formation with three receivers to Shaun Hill’s right and two wideouts to his left.

At the snap, the Cardinals blitzed their nickel corner, which left Stedman Bailey open on a slant route. Due to the zone defender playing too far off the line, coupled with the safety breaking on a crossing route ran from the inside slot position by Jared Cook, Bailey had enough real estate in front of him for a big gain.

One problem: Hill threw high and behind Bailey, who couldn’t corral the pass as he left his feet. Had Hill hit him in stride, Bailey may have scored the go-ahead touchdown or, at the very least, set the Rams up deep in Arizona territory. Instead, the drive stalled on the next play and the Rams once again wasted an outstanding effort from their defense.

Granted, this is just one play from one series during one game. Even Aaron Rodgers misses his mark from time to time. But on a micro-level, the play showed how even if an offensive play caller like Brian Schottenheimer dials up the right formation at the exact right time (in this case, as Todd Bowles mistimed one of his blitz calls), everything still boils down to execution.

On a macro-level, the play served as yet another reminder of how the Rams need to find a long-term solution quarterback. Hill is undoubtedly working hard to help put the Rams in position to succeed on game day and his experience was needed when Austin Davis’ limitations became obvious following a Week 10 loss in Arizona. But Hill is 34 and is limited, making him a better backup than a full-time starter.

The Rams face a dilemma at quarterback in 2015. Sam Bradford will be coming off his second reconstructive knee surgery in as many years and is set to count $16,580,000 against the cap. No matter how much they still believe in Bradford, that’s too much money to commit to a player that has given the team fewer than 500 snaps of production the past two years.

But bringing back Bradford at a reduced cost does have merit. First of all, the free agent crop at quarterback leaves a lot to be desired. Michael Vick has proven the past two seasons that he’s finished as a full-time starter. The more film defensive coordinators have on Brian Hoyer, the more inept he becomes. Some might believe that Jake Locker, Christian Ponder and even Blaine Gabbert still have untapped potential but I don’t count myself among them.

Finally, I don’t why anyone would be interested in a Mark Sanchez-Brian Schottenheimer reunion.

The draft presents its own set of problems. Whether the Rams win both, one, or none of their remaining two games, they’re going to be slotted in the teens in next April’s draft. Provided they don’t trade up, that means they’ll be out of reach for one of the top signal-callers (Oregon’s Marcus Mariota and Florida State’s Jameis Winston), or forced to reach for the next waive of prospects (UCLA’s Brett Hundley and Mississippi State’s Dak Prescott).


Now, an argument could be made that the Rams should part with a future first-round pick in order to move up for either Mariota or Winston. Considering the defense is built to win now and the team could address the holes on offense (center, guard, etc.) in free agency or the middle rounds, I don’t hate the idea. If the Rams’ brass feels as though Mariota or Winston is the difference between 7-9 and a playoff berth, then why not roll the dice? (Provided, of course, that we’re not talking about an RGIII-type trade.)

But whether you love Mariota or think a mid-round prospect like Oregon State’s Sean Mannion is the answer to the Rams’ long-term questions at quarterback, bringing back Bradford at a reduced cost for 2015 makes sense. It’s even more reasonable when working under the assumption that Schottenheimer will also be back for next season (which is another topic for down the road).

As for the Bradford critics (provided they even got past the title of this article), I’m not suggesting that the Rams bypass a QB in next year’s draft in order to re-commit to Bradford long term. That wouldn’t make sense.

He’s coming off two ACL surgeries and his contract situation has hindered the Rams long enough (not his fault, just bad luck for the Rams that he was the last No. 1 pick taken before the rookie salary cap was put into place).

But given the choice of the Rams signing a free agent (who would have to learn Schottenheimer’s offense), rushing a mid-round prospect like Hundley onto the field before he’s ready, or rolling the dice on Bradford at a reduced cost, I’m taking Option C. Because what’s the worst case scenario in that situation? Bradford gets hurt again? Well, then the rookie is forced into action. Bradford is brutal? At least in the rookie you have a fallback option with upside. Bradford plays well and the Rams have to make a decision whether or not to re-sign him for 2016? Then that’s a good problem to have. The rookie outperforms Bradford in camp? Again, that’s a good problem to have.

What the Rams need to avoid is a situation like they had this past year with Hill and Davis forced into extensive action because the team failed to draft a signal-caller before the sixth round. That simply can’t happen again.

Prioritizing the position in the draft and bringing back Bradford at a reduced price would hopefully provide the Rams with enough options so that they don’t have a repeat of 2014.
 

-X-

Medium-sized Lebowski
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Messages
35,576
Name
The Dude
But on a micro-level, the play showed how even if an offensive play caller like Brian Schottenheimer dials up the right formation at the exact right time (in this case, as Todd Bowles mistimed one of his blitz calls), everything still boils down to execution.
point.gif
 

Fatbot

Pro Bowler
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
1,467
Nice read but its already been written a few times over. Next article worthwhile has to include something about Bradford's agent being open to a salary negotiation or else its not very helpful.
 

MerlinJones

Pro Bowler
Joined
Jan 26, 2012
Messages
1,020
If Bradford's agents are "open" to renegotiating his salary he should fire them immediately.

Bradford requesting his release and seeing what the market bears makes much more sense from a business perspective.
Pay him what you agreed to or let him go should be Bradford's agents opening position.
 

-X-

Medium-sized Lebowski
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Messages
35,576
Name
The Dude
If Bradford's agents are "open" to renegotiating his salary he should fire them immediately.

Bradford requesting his release and seeing what the market bears makes much more sense from a business perspective.
Pay him what you agreed to or let him go should be Bradford's agents opening position.
His agents are smarter than that. They have to at least see what the Rams' offer looks like and then decide if there are better options in free agency.
There very well might be, but they have to give Bradford sound advice, and they can't do that without knowing where the Rams stand first.
 

MerlinJones

Pro Bowler
Joined
Jan 26, 2012
Messages
1,020
His agents are smarter than that. They have to at least see what the Rams' offer looks like and then decide if there are better options in free agency.
There very well might be, but they have to give Bradford sound advice, and they can't do that without knowing where the Rams stand first.

I didn't say they shouldn't listen to the Rams offer, I just said what I felt their opening position should be.

While Bradford's agents can't officially "negotiate" on his behalf they can talk to "friends and colleagues" around the league to gauge the interest in Bradford among other QB needy teams.

I would expect Bradford's team to let the Rams make the first move, but I think that they will already have a good idea of his value before that. If the Rams offer is as good or better than that number then they'll start talking, if not they'll probably request a release.
 

Robocop

Pro Bowler
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Messages
1,933
Name
J.
ok so talking about priorities here. yea it would be great to pick up a rookie QB in the first round with great potential but I swear there's sometging missing here.... oh yea! we have no goddamn Oline! what's the point in bringing back Bradford and using a first round pick on a QB if neither can stay on their feet. so what's the plan if you take that rookie QB? find TWO quality FAs somewhere? maybe find one and gamble on Jones? yes I would like my cake and eat it too but something has to give. IMO I'd rather have two more boulders on that line so even if there's a QB issue at some point during the season we can still run the ball down their throats like fisher kept saying they were gonna do. first round OL and a quality FA please
 

Blue and Gold

Pro Bowler
Joined
Jan 6, 2014
Messages
1,741
Name
B and G
Again, reducing the cap number with an extension is one thing, but this "bringing back Sam at right cost" or a "reduced salary" has only been media speculation. Demoff has not mentioned it, only media.

What Demoff and Snead have said is there are discussions about an extension, that is for 2016 and beyond.
 

bwdenverram

Legend
Joined
Jul 25, 2010
Messages
5,503
Name
BW
If Bradford's agents are "open" to renegotiating his salary he should fire them immediately.

Bradford requesting his release and seeing what the market bears makes much more sense from a business perspective.
Pay him what you agreed to or let him go should be Bradford's agents opening position.

I'm not sure I understand this. Even if the RAMS release him how many teams do you think are going to line up to pay him another $30M?
Regardless of talent coming off 2 ACL tears NO team is going to hand him a blank check. I would bet money that every team that has interest is going to offer him an incentive based deal. So why not sign the same type of deal with a team that wants you and is on the verge of something special. His agents are going to negotiate the same deal with the Rams they would have to with any other interested team.

This is a business and as much as I love my team if they bring him back and pay him his full current contract they are stupid.
 

MerlinJones

Pro Bowler
Joined
Jan 26, 2012
Messages
1,020
I'm not sure I understand this. Even if the RAMS release him how many teams do you think are going to line up to pay him another $30M?
Regardless of talent coming off 2 ACL tears NO team is going to hand him a blank check. I would bet money that every team that has interest is going to offer him an incentive based deal. So why not sign the same type of deal with a team that wants you and is on the verge of something special. His agents are going to negotiate the same deal with the Rams they would have to with any other interested team.

This is a business and as much as I love my team if they bring him back and pay him his full current contract they are stupid.

I agree it would be stupid to bring him back at his current salary.
Personally I'd be ok if they didn't bring him back at all, but that's a different discussion.

My argument was never that the Rams (or any team) would pay him whatever he wants, but that his agents should approach any negotiations with the attitude of honor the deal you (the Rams) signed or let us test the market. Everybody involved knows Bradford won't get his scheduled salary, but you shouldn't begin negotiations with that.

Bradford will be making less money next year, it's really just a matter of where.
 

-X-

Medium-sized Lebowski
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Messages
35,576
Name
The Dude
Again, reducing the cap number with an extension is one thing, but this "bringing back Sam at right cost" or a "reduced salary" has only been media speculation. Demoff has not mentioned it, only media.

What Demoff and Snead have said is there are discussions about an extension, that is for 2016 and beyond.
True, but it's almost a foregone conclusion that his extension would involve financial protections for the Organization if he can't play. Which is essentially a lower cost if he does indeed miss significant time. If he meets all of his contractual milestones or incentives, then it works out for Bradford, obviously.
 

RamFan503

Grill and Brew Master
Moderator
Joined
Jun 24, 2010
Messages
33,910
Name
Stu
If I were Bradford, I'd be firing my agents if they insisted on playing hardball. Bradford is guaranteed $3.95 million for 2015. Does anyone think he would want his agents going in with a pay me my $16 million contract or let me walk kind of position? Bradford stands to benefit from a play in type of contract too unless he himself doesn't think he can remain healthy.

I'm not saying he feels he owes the Rams anything. Maybe he does - maybe he doesn't. But everyone has to realize he is not going to get offered his full 2015 contract without a fair amount of it based on incentives. If there is a team out there that would, I'm not sure we can do much about that because I highly doubt we just agree to let him play this one out and renegotiate when we see how he does. Maybe we do but I doubt it..

If I had to guess, I'd say we negotiate with his agents to allow Bradford to keep his salary as long as he is taking snaps on Sundays. They may even put in some incentives where he could make more than his current contract if he plays more than 16 games or reaches other milestones. I also believe it will come with an extension also tied to incentives. At any rate, I don't think either side is going to try to hard ball or steam roll the other.
 

bwdenverram

Legend
Joined
Jul 25, 2010
Messages
5,503
Name
BW
If I were Bradford, I'd be firing my agents if they insisted on playing hardball. Bradford is guaranteed $3.95 million for 2015. Does anyone think he would want his agents going in with a pay me my $16 million contract or let me walk kind of position? Bradford stands to benefit from a play in type of contract too unless he himself doesn't think he can remain healthy.

I'm not saying he feels he owes the Rams anything. Maybe he does - maybe he doesn't. But everyone has to realize he is not going to get offered his full 2015 contract without a fair amount of it based on incentives. If there is a team out there that would, I'm not sure we can do much about that because I highly doubt we just agree to let him play this one out and renegotiate when we see how he does. Maybe we do but I doubt it..

If I had to guess, I'd say we negotiate with his agents to allow Bradford to keep his salary as long as he is taking snaps on Sundays. They may even put in some incentives where he could make more than his current contract if he plays more than 16 games or reaches other milestones. I also believe it will come with an extension also tied to incentives. At any rate, I don't think either side is going to try to hard ball or steam roll the other.

I think at the end of the day Sam, his agents and the Rams know he's playing next year for not just next year but possibly the rest of his career. If he can't come back and stay on the field it's not likely any team will give him another shot. Certainly not for any real money. That said I can absolutely see the Rams offering him an incentive based deal that he could very well make every bit of $16M. The reality is if he comes back and earns it EVERYONE will be happy because we're likely in the playoffs.

But no way he or his agents are going to come in with the you have to pay us attitude. Just not going to happen.
 
Last edited:

A55VA6

Legend
Joined
Mar 9, 2013
Messages
8,208
I think at the end of the day Sam, his agents and the Rams know he's playing next year for not just next year but possibly the rest of his career. If he can't come back and stay on the filed it's not likely any team will give him another shot. Certainly not for any real money. That said I can absolutely see the Rams offering him an incentive based deal that he could very well make every bit of $16M. The reality is if he comes back and earns it EVERYONE will be happy because we're likely in the playoffs.

But no way he or his agents are going to come in with the you have to pay us attitude. Just not going to happen.
I agree with all of this.

2015 is a very important year for Sam Bradford. He has to stay healthy. That's a must. And of course, he has to go out there and perform well. I'm hoping this injury thing was just pure bad luck and he'll get back on track. I like Sam a lot, so I sure hope this works out.
 

Mojo Ram

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Messages
22,906
Name
mojo
I'm not sure I understand this. Even if the RAMS release him how many teams do you think are going to line up to pay him another $30M?
None.
Josh McCown got $10 million last year. He's been an average at best, career backup, but his knees are healthy. Look at his numbers.
Matt Cassell...look at his career. And he came with healthy knees too.... $10 million 2 years.
Bradford ain't getting much more than that from anyone outside of St Louis. Reclamation project. Flyer deal.
 

blue4

Hall of Fame
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
3,126
Name
blue4
Maybe Bradford wants to be here. It's not like he's shown disinterest. He's on the sidelines engaged with his teammates every game, home or away. He's still engaged with his coaches during the week. He's not married, so he doesn't have that pushing him. Far and away his best chance for redemption is here.
 

Mackeyser

Supernovas are where gold forms; the only place.
Joined
Apr 26, 2013
Messages
14,172
Name
Mack
Dood is the most plugged in IR guy in the history of IR guys.

If ever there was a guy who wanted to be here... it's Sam Bradford. Short of running the QB meetings... he's been said to be around and preparing as if he were still starting.

A) That tells the Rams that if he's physically good, he's going to be our starter because you just don't get more professional than that and...

B) That tells other organizations that if he's physically good, he'll do what he has to do to be that starter.

I'd bet money that Sam's first and second choices are to stay with the Rams. And I'd bet money that the Rams' first and second choices are for Sam to stay.

So, unless some lawyer mucks this up...

wait...
 

RamFan503

Grill and Brew Master
Moderator
Joined
Jun 24, 2010
Messages
33,910
Name
Stu
he's been said to be around and preparing as if he were still starting.
That is what I have heard as well. And what that would suggest to me is that he is PLANNING to be the starter HERE next year.