Any police officers here?

[Greg Stone]

Bingo, money. Traffic officers are treated as tax collectors by the local government.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

I have a story.

My buddy goes to Verona Italy to meet with a famous Italian actor who you've all seen in Spaghetti Westerns - you know the guy on the right who gets blasted away by Clint - well this guy has a killer ranch

So he gets to this badass ranch in Verona and it's surrounded by these large walls - all around the place, and on top of the walls every so many hundred yards is a guy with a rifle - so my buddy asks what's up with those dudes and their rifles? And the Actor says "gypsies"
Gypsies? My buddy responds and the actor goes on to tell him "in Italy if you call the cops you'd be lucky if they came a week later and if they did you'd have to kick them down cash - this way with all the guards if a gypsy tries to break in we just shoot them"
So my buddy said the Actor pointed to the edge of the forest and said "we bury them over there."

Well the dude wasn't kidding at all. They shot gypsies and thought nothing of it. Italy isn't as romantic as the books make it out to be

So my buddy comes back and he is at a cafe in Silverlake with his wife and some LA Cop is dealing with some kids who are violating the law - the cops start to surround the kid and the kid is acting all punk, people at the cafe start to yell across the street for the "pigs" to let the kid go. Well he tells me his wife starts to do the same thing and he grabs her and says "don't you dare" and that she needs to know that in the USA if you need help at any moment you can call the police and they will come as fast as they can - and that she should respect and be thankful for that fact

Policemen in America rules - some like in all fields of endeavor you'll find some serious buttholes, but overall they are the greatest blessing we have.

Best thing to do if you're getting rousted by cops is do what they say - I know it's fucked when they are not paying attention to the constitution (duh) but there are avenues to pursue after the fact. If you do as they say it's gonna be okay - if you give them stick they are gonna give it right back - it's a tough job.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Most (almost all) people in Europe hate gypsies. Even my mom, the most hippie person I know, hates them. Its different now where they don't just kill them or anything, but people try to avoid them usually.

 

[fearsomefour]

I have a story.

My buddy goes to Verona Italy to meet with a famous Italian actor who you've all seen in Spaghetti Westerns - you know the guy on the right who gets blasted away by Clint - well this guy has a killer ranch

So he gets to this badass ranch in Verona and it's surrounded by these large walls - all around the place, and on top of the walls every so many hundred yards is a guy with a rifle - so my buddy asks what's up with those dudes and their rifles? And the Actor says "gypsies"
Gypsies? My buddy responds and the actor goes on to tell him "in Italy if you call the cops you'd be lucky if they came a week later and if they did you'd have to kick them down cash - this way with all the guards if a gypsy tries to break in we just shoot them"
So my buddy said the Actor pointed to the edge of the forest and said "we bury them over there."

Well the dude wasn't kidding at all. They shot gypsies and thought nothing of it. Italy isn't as romantic as the books make it out to be

So my buddy comes back and he is at a cafe in Silverlake with his wife and some LA Cop is dealing with some kids who are violating the law - the cops start to surround the kid and the kid is acting all punk, people at the cafe start to yell across the street for the "pigs" to let the kid go. Well he tells me his wife starts to do the same thing and he grabs her and says "don't you dare" and that she needs to know that in the USA if you need help at any moment you can call the police and they will come as fast as they can - and that she should respect and be thankful for that fact

Policemen in America rules - some like in all fields of endeavor you'll find some serious buttholes, but overall they are the greatest blessing we have.

Best thing to do if you're getting rousted by cops is do what they say - I know it's freaked when they are not paying attention to the constitution (duh) but there are avenues to pursue after the fact. If you do as they say it's gonna be okay - if you give them stick they are gonna give it right back - it's a tough job.

Your post touches on a lot of things.
The first part with shooting criminals because an broken system won't do anything about it....Americas future.

The part with the idiots in the cafe yelling at the police and calling them "pigs" because they are dealing with someone who is not listening to what they are saying (the people in the cafe have no idea what this "kid" did or did not do). It has become fashionable to hate and bag on the police. The level of arrogance to live in a mostly free and generally safe society and want to piss on the people that help keep it safe is mind boggling.....Americas present.

The image of a caring and responsive police rushing out because someone broke into your house and stole something....Americas past.

 

[fearsomefour]

Most (almost all) people in Europe hate gypsies. Even my mom, the most hippie person I know, hates them. Its different now where they don't just kill them or anything, but people try to avoid them usually.

We don't have to deal with "gypsies" here....and I still hate them.

 

[Angry Ram]

All I said is that I'm glad more and more Americans are standing up for their rights. Last time I checked, that was the principle this country was founded on.

Yeah?

II. SEARCHES AND SEIZURES UNDER FOURTH AMENDMENT

The courts must determine what constitutes a search or seizure under the Fourth Amendment. If the conduct challenged does not fall within the Fourth Amendment, the individual will not enjoy protection under Fourth Amendment.

A. Search

A search under Fourth Amendment occurs when a governmental employee or agent of the government violates an individual's reasonable expectation of privacy.

Strip searches and visual body cavity searches, including anal or genital inspections, constitute reasonable searches under the Fourth Amendment when supported byprobable cause and conducted in a reasonable manner.

A dog-sniff inspection is invalid under the Fourth Amendment if the the inspection violates a reasonable expectation of privacy. Electronic surveillance is also considered asearch under the Fourth Amendment.

B. Seizure of a Person

A seizure of a person, within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment, occurs when the police's conduct would communicate to a reasonable person, taking into account the circumstances surrounding the encounter, that the person is not free to ignore the police presence and leave at his will.

Two elements must be present to constitute a seizure of a person. First, there must be a show of authority by the police officer. Presence of handcuffs or weapons, the use of forceful language, and physical contact are each strong indicators of authority. Second, the person being seized must submit to the authority. An individual who ignores the officer’s request and walks away has not been seized for Fourth Amendment purposes.

An arrest warrant is preferred but not required to make a lawful arrest under the Fourth Amendment. A warrantless arrest may be justified where probable cause and urgent need are present prior to the arrest. Probable cause is present when the police officer has a reasonable belief in the guilt of the suspect based on the facts and information prior to the arrest. For instance, a warrantless arrest may be legitimate in situations where a police officer has a probable belief that a suspect has either committed a crime or is a threat to the public security. Also, a police officer might arrest a suspect to prevent the suspect’s escape or to preserve evidence. A warrantlessarrest may be invalidated if the police officer fails to demonstrate exigent circumstances.

The ability to make warrantless arrests are commonly limited by statutes subject to the due process guaranty of the U.S. Constitution. A suspect arrested without awarrant is entitled to prompt judicial determination, usually within 48 hours.

There are investigatory stops that fall short of arrests, but nonetheless, they fall within Fourth Amendment protection. For instance, police officers can perform a terry stop or a traffic stop. Usually, these stops provide officers with less dominion and controlling power and impose less of an infringement of personal liberty for individual stopped. Investigatory stops must be temporary questioning for limited purposes and conducted in a manner necessary to fulfill the purpose.

An officer’s reasonable suspicion is sufficient to justify brief stops and detentions. To determine if the officer has met the standard to justify the seizure, the court takes into account the totality of the circumstances and examines whether the officer has a particularized and reasonable belief for suspecting the wrongdoing. Probable causegained during stops or detentions might effectuate a subsequent warrantless arrest.


https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fourth_amendment

 

[fearsomefour]

Investigatory stops must be temporary questioning for limited purposes and conducted in a manner necessary to fulfill the purpose.

An officer’s reasonable suspicion is sufficient to justify brief stops and detentions.

Refusing a cop to search your vehicle is not probable cause to allow a search.
They try that non sense all the time.

 

[Angry Ram]

Refusing a cop to search your vehicle is not probable cause to allow a search.
They try that non sense all the time.

But it does raise suspicion. Are you hiding something? SOmething that shouldn't be there?

 

[fearsomefour]

But it does raise suspicion. Are you hiding something? SOmething that shouldn't be there?

Doesn't much matter.
You have the right to refuse a search of your car/house ect. That may raise their suspicion but that is not cause for a search. If it were that would make that part of the amendment invalid. The Supreme Court has upheld this time and time again.
Had a conversation very similar to this with a police woman not so long ago. I know she was placing a judgement based on me driving my beater car and doing something that didn't make sense to her. She asked for my lic., great, run your little check and try to get a cheap arrest. Gives me my lic back. She asks again what I am doing, explain it to her again. Sees a box in my back seat, asks if she can look in the box....no, not at all. Have the 60 second conversation detailed above, she smiles and says "Have a good day." Gets back in her car and drives away.
What an ass.

 

[Rynie]

But it does raise suspicion. Are you hiding something? SOmething that shouldn't be there?

It doesn't matter. The average American will fall victim to their intimidation, and let a cop illegally search their car. There's reasonable suspicion, and probable cause. The cops can be suspicious all they want, but if they don't have probable cause, they can't search your car/home.

 

[-X-]

You can tell them they can't search your car, but they'll more often than not make you sit there while they call in the K-9 unit to sniff your vehicle.

 

[Angry Ram]

Doesn't much matter.
You have the right to refuse a search of your car/house ect. That may raise their suspicion but that is not cause for a search. If it were that would make that part of the amendment invalid. The Supreme Court has upheld this time and time again.
Had a conversation very similar to this with a police woman not so long ago. I know she was placing a judgement based on me driving my beater car and doing something that didn't make sense to her. She asked for my lic., great, run your little check and try to get a cheap arrest. Gives me my lic back. She asks again what I am doing, explain it to her again. Sees a box in my back seat, asks if she can look in the box....no, not at all. Have the 60 second conversation detailed above, she smiles and says "Have a good day." Gets back in her car and drives away.
What an ass.

A house, I can agree with. You need a warrant, and police can't wily nily search.

It doesn't matter. The average American will fall victim to their intimidation, and let a cop illegally search their car. There's reasonable suspicion, and probable cause. The cops can be suspicious all they want, but if they don't have probable cause, they can't search your car/home.

Actually, they can if it's in plain view or something incriminating (like a smell, bodily fluid stains, etc).

Also, it's not intimidation, it's called following procedure (at least, when they first talk with you). No rights are being violated. Just b/c you don't agree with why they pulled you over, or they gave you a ticket over a petty issue like speeding, etc. doesn't give you a free pass to be a dick. That's all I'm saying.

 

[LazyWinker]

I find that it's best to treat anyone that has the authority to make your life inconvenient in any way with respect and show that you appreciate their work. That goes for police, security guards, TSA, etc. Anyone that has the power to make my life inconvenient, I am genuinely nice too. It's helpful when at the airport because I'm pretty absent minded and always forget something when getting through the TSA.

 

[Rynie]

A house, I can agree with. You need a warrant, and police can't wily nily search.



Actually, they can if it's in plain view or something incriminating (like a smell, bodily fluid stains, etc).

Also, it's not intimidation, it's called following procedure (at least, when they first talk with you). No rights are being violated. Just b/c you don't agree with why they pulled you over, or they gave you a ticket over a petty issue like speeding, etc. doesn't give you a free pass to be a dick. That's all I'm saying.

Yes, I know. Anything illegal in plain view gives them PROBABLE CAUSE. They can suspect all they want, but until they have probable cause, they can't do shit. You don't even have speak to them. And yes, police use intimidation all the time. They'll tell you to do things that you don't have to, counting on the fact you aren't aware. All i was doing was sitting in a friend's driveway once, and the cops came looking for his neighbor. He asked my for my ID. In the state of Texas, I don't have to show him my ID (brown vs. texas), because I wasn't suspected of a crime. I said my ID was in my car, which he then went and just tried to open my car. I respectfully said, "NO, I'll get my ID out for you." I was fully cooperative, but he just assumed he could open my car door (i had nothing illegal). NOPE. I don't allow that type of behavior, and more Americans need to be aware of their rights, because they're being taken away more and more each day.

 

[ozarkram]

I am all for our rights. And I am all for standing up for them. But you have to use common sense. You are dealing with a person just like yourself with all the everyday problems everyone else has. Plus a job that can get you killed. Its has been my experience that cops can and will do anything they want. Doesn't mean they can make it stick. But it does mean they can make your life a living hell for a while. Maybe ending up sore in places you don't wanta be sore. I liken hassling a cop to pissing in a fan just not to bright a thing to do. But if you must have at it.

 

[Prime Time]

The street I live on has at least four cops that I know of. Why? I have no idea. But I like having them around just in case. Plus for some reason our street always gets plowed during the winter while others around here don't.

When my son lived in Indiana, he was 20 at the time, he was on his way one night to pick up his wife from a company party. What he didn't know was that his wife had placed a bottle of wine in the backseat. So a cop pulls him over and arrests him for having alcohol in his car, even though it was unopened and he hadn't been drinking. He spends the night in jail and gets 2-years probation. What a load of crud!

I've had mostly good and an occasional bad experience with police officers. I've learned some things from those experiences when being pulled over. a) turn on the inside lights, roll down the window, put your hands on the steering wheel. b) be polite but only speak when spoken to and don't volunteer any information. c) don't give the police officer any reason to be nervous.

Cops are shot and sometimes killed when pulling someone over and have every right to be nervous. They are relieved when someone makes their job easier and will usually be merciful depending on why they pulled you over. Those who do the opposite shouldn't be surprised when they're treated unfairly.

 

[Mackeyser]

Like you guys, I've had good and bad experiences and it much more depended on the cops than me.

I deleted my novella, but suffice it to say, like in Legatron's case, it's all about revenue, not safety or even the law. The good cops cared about safety and the law. The bad cops were doing their job at known, super unsafe speed trap (on Sepulveda Blvd, across from the In 'N Out Burger north of LAX)

And in that case, they can go freak themselves. I have zero respect for that. Zero. None. Because at that point, they've become a racket and are using the law to extort money.

In other areas of the law, without an alternative, laws cannot be enforced. Except, it seems, traffic. Because that's a revenue stream. Then it's perfectly okay for citizens to have zero idea what's legal or what the legal alternative is because the municipality, county or state would prefer to simply have the citizen be in conflict with the law in order to assess a fine.

And that's my problem. I'd rather we all follow the law and have a system which encourages that we all follow the law, not one that essentially requires a certain number of folks to break the law and if not enough do, then we see stricter enforcement of more obscure statutes for no reason other than revenue.

But that's just my stuff. Most cops are good folks trying to do a hard job. But it only takes a few bad ones to really create a horrible stink.

And, YES, as Yamahopper pointed out, there are systemic issues. It's uncanny how racial disparities show up in traffic stops. Everyone may use drugs at the same rates, but if mostly people of color get pulled over, that will mean mostly people of color get caught.

And that code of silence crap has to die. Good cops need to run the bad cops out on a rail, already. We ask people in groups to speak out about their dysfunctional aspects ALL THE TIME. Irish were supposed to denounce the violence of the IRA. Moderate Muslims are supposed to denounce the violence of Muslim extremists. I see no reason why Good Cops shouldn't be expected to denounce the violence of Bad Cops.

After all, Bad Cops endanger the lives of Good Cops in quantifiable ways.

I know to comply with an officer because the alternative is doing what they say and maybe them being wrong or not doing what they say and being "dead right". I don't agree with the hair trigger anger issues that officers have these days. The single issuance of a lawful order does not give an officer the legal right to physically assault a citizen, but it just keeps happening. That doesn't mean I condone chewing out a cop when he asks a simple question. That's totally unnecessary. Civil and simple is easy. Do that.

Then again, a huge part of the problem is that cities and counties put officers in really crappy situations of generating revenue rather than actually acting as peace officers. And it's not as if the citizenry doesn't GET IT that the officers aren't functioning in the capacity of peace officers during these times.

It wasn't okay to send out our troops without body armor. It's not okay to send out our police to be revenue collectors/generators.

 

[Mackeyser]

Oh and to @Legatron4 , I'd go STRAIGHT to the boss and ask him to push back on the vendors receiving shipment. I mean, if they can't receive their goods, they should be mad and complain to the city. And that should be a real possibility.

"Listen. We'd love to keep delivering to you, but if the city keeps ticketing our drivers, we'll have to stop delivering to your address. Other companies may do it for awhile, but that'll only go on for so long. At some point, no one will deliver to you. You really need to verify from the city what's an acceptable way for you to receive delivery at this address."

Enough complaints and maybe the town will back off.

They won't listen to a local truck driver or maybe not even a shipping company (why would they when they can keep wringing ticket money from you?), but they sure as hell will listen to a bunch of local business owners...

 

[Yamahopper]

I have a very good friend that's the chief of police in a small town close to where I used to live. We're both vol. Fireman at the same time. Great at his job.
He always says if anyone asks for a lawyer they must be guilty. Automatically they will arrest and attempt to prosecute them. It's the town and counties policy.
Okay.

Ex brother in law is a very good attorney.
He says never speak to the police with out an attorney present. You can remain silent, it's your right.
He says he's seen many times a person miss speak and be charged with a crime, and go to trial over a simply not understanding the situation and giving a answer that is open to misinterpreting.

So go figure.

 

[Ramsey]

In August of '99, I drove my 87 Grand National out of the shop. My girlfriend and I drove one block to a 7-11 to celebrate my GN's freedom with slurpys. Two minutes later I got pulled over by 2 police cars into an apartment complex. A few minutes after that, I've got 5 police cars surrounding me. They pull me out of my car and put me face down on my car's trunk.

I'm shocked. They ask if they can search my car. I say sure...The police officer was in and out of my car in 10 seconds, holding a cellophane cigarette wrapper with a mysterious substance. My first thought was..." Oh fuck! They planted cocaine on me!" But no, as the officer approached me, I could see there the cellophane contained about a quarter ounce of the most rank, cheap weed I'd ever seen.

I said, " That's not mine...I don't smoke cigarettes...My car has been in the shop for weeks, and I just got my car out of the shop 10 minutes ago."

Since it's a Saturday, and we're in an apartment complex by a pool, we have an audience of around 20 people...The officer gets loud and yells at me to take the cellophane cheap weed from his hand. I say in a calm but loud voice..." No. My fingerprints aren't on that cellophane...The only fingerprints on that weed are yours and the other officers...I will not implicate myself."

Just then, one of the other officers says something like, "The auto shop said he just got his car out..." So they let me go...

I didn't know my 4th amendment rights in 99'. Oh I sort of knew my rights, the same way Richard Pryor knew about Stop drop and roll. But, if you don't practice stop, drop, and roll. you run down the street after setting yourself on fire.

So my wife and I practice our 4th amendment rights a few times a year. Better safe than sorry...


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVx0NpYbtus