And Nick Wagoner's response to the PFF thread is ...

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Rams roster better than No. 31

EARTH CITY, Mo. -- There was a time in the not so distant past where, if you ranked NFL rosters from No. 1 to 32, placing the St. Louis Rams at No. 31 would have been considered a compliment.

As the Rams trudged through one and two-win seasons, the lack of overall talent on the roster was so glaring that not coming in last on such a list would be cause for celebration. But those times are gone. Or they should be, anyway.

The folks from Pro Football Focus released their own roster rankings on ESPN Insider on Thursday and much to my surprise and, perhaps, that of many others, the Rams checked in at No. 31. That is not a typo, the Rams finished ahead of Jacksonville, narrowly avoiding a last-place finish.

Four or five years ago, anyone watching the Rams would have been hard-pressed to disagree. As we sit here in 2014, most would do so vehemently.

To put some context behind the ranking, Pro Football Focus has its own methods of measuring each player's production. They use film study and have developed their own grading system which is then used to assign each player a color designation. Those colors correlate to a label for each player of "elite," "high quality," "good starter," "average starter," "below average starter," "poor starter," "not enough information," and "rookie."

Obviously, the more players ranked as a "good starter" or above, the better the roster will be. For example, the No. 1 ranked Seattle Seahawks have three elite starters, seven high-quality starters and eight good starters. According to PFF's metrics, the Seahawks have just two below average starters and zero poor starters.

When it comes to the Rams, the only elite player according to PFF is defensive end Robert Quinn. That is an assessment that is hard to disagree with both in the sense that he is absolutely an elite player, but also in the roster being void of others who would qualify for that label.

However, it's in the middle part of those rankings where I would disagree with PFF's ranks. Of the team's 22 starters, PFF has the Rams down for seven below average starters, eight average starters and two poor starters. That means 17 of the 22 players on the roster are average of worse, according to PFF.

Included in the group of below average starters are middle linebacker James Laurinaitis, outside linebacker Alec Ogletree and tight end Jared Cook. Running back Zac Stacy and defensive tackle Michael Brockers are two of the starters deemed average, and safeties T.J. McDonald and Rodney McLeod are the two listed as poor starters.

While Laurinaitis, Ogletree and Cook certainly have their faults, I wouldn't consider any of them below average based on how they produce compared to others at their positions. That is not to say any of them should be considered elite, but Laurinaitis and Ogletree were two of the most productive linebackers in the league last season, and Laurinaitis has a track record of producing far better than below average or average. Ogletree has plenty of improvement to do, but improved throughout the season and provided plenty of flash plays. Cook didn't put up numbers commensurate with his contract in the first season, but still finished 10th in the league among tight ends in receiving yards, fifth in yards per catch and tied for 11th in touchdowns. If nothing else, those numbers would put him right at average.

By no means am I saying the Rams should be a top 10 or even necessarily a top 20 roster, but it's hard to understand how some teams on the list, such as Minnesota and Oakland, could be ahead of St. Louis.

The Rams certainly have more than their share of question marks heading into 2014. They have been the youngest team in the league two years running and look poised to be once again next season. It's also worth considering that a roster that young still has managed to finish with seven wins in each of the past two seasons. If the roster was older and treading water, I could understand the argument for it being one of the league's worst.

But it isn't. It's folly to think all of the Rams' young players will develop into top starters in the league. There is plenty of work to be done before the Rams roster can be considered one of the league's best. But they've done enough that they should no longer be deemed one of the worst.
 

RamzFanz

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The Rams will no longer be the clowns, we will be the mimes. They won't hear us coming.
 

RamzFanz

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I have no problem with the ranking. I want to be able to point back and laugh at them later. I STILL visit the article that ranked Quinn as second tier last season and laugh at the author.
 

Thordaddy

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WELL OUR DRAFT RANKING PUT US AT #20 coming out of last year with 9 games played with our backup QB,wonder how they sell themselves on the idea we dropped 11 spots with what is considered one of the best drafts in the league.
I love to hate people who think they can rank.
 

bomebadeeda

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It's someone using data to support their opinion......and as we all know..."Opinions are like......."
And ESPN is full of them......
 

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It's someone using data to support their opinion......and as we all know..."Opinions are like......."
And ESPN is full of them......
Seems to me that Nick Wagoner (ESPN) is refuting some of the claims by PFF that the Rams players are below average with the exception of Quinn.
 

ZigZagRam

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To be honest, there's not much in PFFs assessment that I can argue with.

PFF grades past production, not promise.

Stacy looked good at times, but at the end of the day finished with a YPC below 4.0.
Laurinaitis is one of the more overrated Rams. Not going to be a popular opinion on this forum I imagine, but he's a flawed player that we could stand to improve on in the future.
The McSafeties weren't good last season. Again, we hope they improve and play better, but there's no guarantee that they will.
Same goes for our corners who weren't great last season.

It's a young team who played like a young team last season. That's what these PFF grades are from.
 

RustyRay

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I guess we will find out this season...it's good bulletin board stuff for Fisher...to show his players the total disrespect of being ranked the 31st roster in the league..

The team already strikes me as a motivated group...add this to the fire...
 

SteveBrown

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Brockers and Langford are the reason the Defense is top 15. Quinn will make them more studly, but without those guys stuffing the middle, their D would be 25th.

re Brockers and Langford: After rewatching the entire season, I feel like they as a twosome, are more than Quinn. And, Langford might be better (in 2013) than Brockers....though Quinn is of course, the best defensive end in football!!! And ranks up their, in talent and playing intelligence, with HOF players like richard dent, jack younblood....et al.
 

Da-Rock

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Unless for fun, ranking is a waste of time. If PFF is just putting out entertainment......fine with me. You simply cannot grade a single player in something as fluid and ever changing as a team sport.

Its a team, individual players are not lone stars.......they interact with teammates, provide support and most often are doing things that take them away from ranked stats. If PFF wants to rank roster's talent then they would have to calculate it as one entity and not single players.

I would agree that the Rams have a lot of players who are not performing their jobs as assigned, but you can't be a top 15 defense and a 31st ranked roster. The numbers wouldn't support the 31st ranked roster winning 7 games and ranking 15th on defense.
 

leoram

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The 31st team dominated #1 in their first meeting and lost on a fluke pass play, and that without their starting quarterback. I can't wait for live action. This speculative analysis is little more than football porn. We pick to read what turns us on but reality has the highs and disappointments of reality. But since there are no games, this is all we got.
 

blackbart

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"Laurinaitis has a track record of producing far better than below average or average." Hard to see how someone like this could be over-rated unless someone is saying he is the best in the league. He is what he is, on the field leading our defense making calls and being one of the faces of the franchise.

PFF is starting to sound like bleacher reports, just making stuff up as they go along. I guess they are entitled to their opinions like everyone. :whistle:
 

ZigZagRam

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Laurinaitis has trouble shedding he's not effective as a blitzer, and he's not good in coverage.

He's an athletically challenged but intelligent football player, but he's nowhere close to being the difference maker that some seem to think he is at least in terms of play. That said you can't put a number on his leadership.

Luckily his contract will be paying him much closer to what he's worth going forward.
 

Pancake

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Come on the Rams play in a division where two teams are SB contenders and the Rams hold there own and compete. The real 31st ranked team in the NFL would not be able to do that. They would fold and get pounded. That's not what these Rams are. They are fighters and scrappers. Teams don't want to play the Rams and face that monster D. They want to play the real 31st ranked team who ever that is.
 

bomebadeeda

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Seems to me that Nick Wagoner (ESPN) is refuting some of the claims by PFF that the Rams players are below average with the exception of Quinn.

Okay, I don't always view NW as ESPN, but you are right. He did champion our guys, even though the rest of the network has a very low opinion of us.
 

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Makes you wonder how so many defensive coaches could miss on such a glaringly weak player. Spagnuolo, Flajole, Fisher, McGinnis, Williams (Jr and Sr)? They kept/keep trotting him out to Captain the defense despite PFF saying he's below average. I get that he's not a splashy playmaker, but I'll take 52 of him and win a shit ton of Championships.
 

kurtfaulk

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i think they saw the rams having the #2 pick but didn't realise it was actually the skins pick that was traded to the rams.

they must have been confused and ranked the players accordingly.

.